My daughter needs a film rangefinder for School! Something tough and long lasting!

You have been Lucky Roger and count your blessings. My m5 dropped 2 times no problem. M6 and M8 never dropped but rather banged together in a raunchy crowded festival and both went out of alignment vertically.
Get her an FM2 and nikkor 1.4/50mm is my advise. If she is used to the D700 already. A reflex is going to help her get more out of the class than learning a new shooting style.
 
I tend to agree with you about her not needing a new Leica. That's a serious investment of cash.

And if she's OCD about scratches and scuffs, she's not going to be happy picking up a Japanese POS from the 1970s, especially when 1) it might not work, and 2) the degrading foam seals come off as a black goo on her fingers.

I think the Cosina Voigtlanders are excellent low cost starting points. I'd suggest that.

Heck, she has the rest of her life to afford a Leica. That's like my daughter thinking she's going to get a new car when she gets her license. Nope -- she's going to share the family beater.

And she's a clutz/careless, I definitely wouldn't be buying a Leica. That's just me being a hard-ass dad.
 
f16sunshine said:
You have been Lucky Roger and count your blessings. My m5 dropped 2 times no problem. M6 and M8 never dropped but rather banged together in a raunchy crowded festival and both went out of alignment vertically.
Get her an FM2 and nikkor 1.4/50mm is my advise. If she is used to the D700 already. A reflex is going to help her get more out of the class than learning a new shooting style.
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No doubt, and I do. Even so, I think it's quite easy to overstate the risks.

Cheers,

R.
 
Do you think I should have her find a summer job and pay for it all herself? Hopefully this way she'll realize the value of money...
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I think this question ideally should have been addressed about a decade ago but YES she needs to buy the camera herself.

Rob
 
3 RF models. Not large in size. Old, but buy the best quality one you can find and probably at 1/3rd the amount you have to spend (for the higher quality)

Yashica GX, CC or CCN

Small in size. Aperture priority and cool in black finish

GX will need an battery adaptor (sold by the yashicaguy) to use newer 1.5V batteries.

Same could be for the CC and CCN (never owned one)

All 3 are good 35mm cameras

This way if she drops it. Not going to worry as much as with a Leica.

Also attach a strap and show her how that works :)

DON
 
As a child I was given many watches, as I lost one after another. After I bought my first one, I never again lost one.

Not a psychologist, but do you mean to say that once he gets a new camera, unmarked, she uses it and never gets marks on it? Hard to believe.

I'd be tempted to indicate how scratches and marks are an indication of well-used tools, inevitable really, and that patina and brassing are THE indications of an "artiste".

And I agree with several comments made here that would make her a moral agent. You could give her a choice of a perfectly usable used camera, or the option of paying the difference to get the new, "top of the line" equipment she wants.

BTW, whatever she gets, will you be on the hook for replacing it if she breaks it. loses it, marks it up? Seems like a losing proposition here.

There must be a way to limit your exposure.

Best wishes and good luck.
 
Peter S said:
Sending a daughter to a school in France and only 700GBP left in the budget ? Have never heard of a school asking for rangefinders, are you sure she is not trying to be fashionable with the coolest looking retro camera on earth?

Schools sometimes ask for a film camera, most cases because they still teach darkroom in the first year and some of them actually even lend you the film equipment in this digital age. A school insisting on rangefinders, sounds suspicious or extremely pretentious to me.
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Agreed, I have a masters in photojournalism and then subsequently taught photography and at no time did we ever require an RF camera. Most of the students had K1000's or AE-!'s. I was considered the rich snobby kid at my photography school for the first two years cause I had a then brand new Nikon F3Hp and a ten year old Bronica EC.

Even today the schools want basic film cameras so the students can learn the basics of film, but I can't imagine any school requiring a RF camera to learn on. Some schools have weekend specialty classes on Holga or Dianna's, but even then, those are just weekend classes. I just have a real hard time buying that an RF is "REQUIRED", so I'm inclined to agree with ya, Peter.

Personally, I'd be terribly reserved and apprehensive to buy a 21 year old a Leica alone if not for the fact that she has already trashed a 70-200. I am assuming it was an f/2.8 lens which are built like tanks to begin with. And if she is that accident prone, regardless of what you get her, I'd suggest getting the gear insured through someone like Hayes to cover any costs, as I can see it getting, lost, stolen, or broke.

If it's got to be an RF, then I'd suggest like the others a Bessa R3 or R4 or a Leica CL. (Then she gets her Leica, and you can keep a kidney) But, if I were you, I'd look to get more details from the school to see if that RF is really a requirement or or not. I have kids, and know how they always try to sucker something more than what they really need.
 
When my daughter was at university a couple of years ago she took a photography course, in which she learned to develop film, and borrowed my Canonet Q17 GIII. She came to prefer SLR cameras, and so I got her a Minolta XD (plus several lenses) as a graduation gift.

But since your daughter must use an RF, my recommendations, given your price range, would be as follows:

1) least expensive but meeting your criteria: Canonet Q17 GIII, or a Konica Auto S2. Both are fixed-lens rfs, and have excellent (in the Konica's case, really excellent) lenses. Both are capable of fully manual as well as shutter-priority mode operation.

2) interchangeable lenses and indestructable, yet also with a coolness factor: Canon P. A Canon P with a CV Skopar 50/2.5 would be an outstanding combination and well within your budget.

3) new, well built (but not quite indestructable), great meter, bright VF: Bessa R2m or R3m (or the "a" version of either camera); which one to get will depend on what focal length lens she prefers to start with.
 
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I worked an after school job for some time to get a bicycle as a kid and walked quite a distance home from that job so as not to waste money on bus fares ... sigh!

Shades of the three Yorkshire men (Monty Python) I realise but ... !
 
Sounds like she may be trying to coax you into buying her a Leica... It's a strategy I used when I was young. I HIGHLY doubt that any photo school would make her use a rangefinder.
 
Easy one - buy her a Leica and be done with it. £700 budget will make it tight, but not impossible, if you intend your budget to include a lens also.

My first Leica was an M6, and version 4 50mm summicron, with body coming to €750 and the lens €500. My advice would be an M2, which should clock in at about €550 give or take, if you buy well. Lens-wise, a 35mm should see off the street end of things, a 50mm non-headshot portraits, with a 90mm tighter portraits. No need to get all at once, and good budget options to be had in all focal lengths.

I'll leave it to others to recommend what's out there with regard to lenses for your budget though, as it's been a while since I looked.
 
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Does it have to be 35mm? Fuji 645 RF's can be a great match for Paris, and also an Inland Marine Policy (all risk) on the Home Owner's policy-- I pay about 1.5% of value per year.

Great View Finders as well--

If only 35mm -- M6-- with a half case-- though I really like the M7, would take some luck to find one in your price range, but possible?

I see a fair number of used Leica's and Voigtlanders at camera shows, dealers are most likely to invest in almost mint only for resale,

I did buy a "user" M2, had been CLA'd, M4 frame lines installed, and scratches from the external meter, but that was what I was looking for, and the dealer only took it on trade to ship to me. He called me to tell me I had bought a camera. Said it was too "rough" for the shop. ;-) It actually took me a few years to find this "user".

Lots of used Voigtlanders are boxed-- and then, New is New.

Would try for chrome as well, often cheaper and generally more durable.

For what education she is getting, the equipment price is worth it. If she starts with the best, it will be what she uses for a long time. What is it, "I am too poor to buy cheap?", unless you get lucky.


Regards, John
 
damien.murphy said:
Easy one - buy her a Leica and be done with it. £700 budget will make it tight, but not impossible, if you intend your budget to include a lens also.

My first Leica was an M6, and version 4 50mm summicron, with body coming to €750 and the lens €500. My advice would be an M2, which should clock in at about €550 give or take, if you buy well. Lens-wise, a 35mm should see off the street end of things, a 50mm non-headshot portraits, with a 90mm tighter portraits. No need to get all at once, and good budget options to be had in all focal lengths.

I'll leave it to others to recommend what's out there with regard to lenses for your budget though, as it's been a while since I looked.
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I change my mind. Just after re-reading the original post, and think that with a loved one that has a penchant for nonchalantly breaking expensive lenses and demanding new Leica's, that the choice of which camera to buy, is not the problem here.

The recommendation of an Argus C3 springs to mind..
 
ps-- Paris is an expensive market to buy, just in case you did not know this, and so is much of Europe. You really did not mention lenses-- lots of options-- I would look hard at Voigtlander glass to start, unless you opt for the Fuji.
 
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