mich rassena
Well-known
I've noticed that trend as well. I suppose if you have a broken Leica fixed, then at the end of the day you have a Leica. But if you get a Zorki fixed, at the end of the day, you don't have a Leica. There's definitely the perception that FSU cameras are cheap and plentiful. I've fooled around trying to fix a Kiev whose rangefinder wasn't quite right, when the job was better left to someone who knows what they're doing. I was only emboldened to try it because it was cheap to begin with and I wasn't willing to spend any more money on it.
So, with FSU cameras, there's sort of a self-fulfilling view of the cameras as junk. I paid junk store prices for most of my FSU stuff. I recently paid $10 for a FED 5B that's missing stuff and only some shutter speeds work. I thought it looked cool, and as someone who grew up during the Cold War, the novelty of former Soviet stuff arriving at my mailbox just hasn't worn off yet. But there's no justification to spend any money to fix this camera. If I really wanted a nice example of the type, I'd just buy a nice example next time. But it does seem that a $10 Leica would get different treatment.
mich rassena
Well-known
I suppose with FSU cameras more so than other cameras I've bought, it's really a case of getting what you pay for. Maybe FSU cameras appeal to those of us who are cheap and want to gamble on getting a bargain.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
In my experience Japanese cameras are often afflicted with dried out or gummy light seals - which although relatively easy to replace - make the cameras unusable on arrival.
Valkir1987
Well-known
Never expect any camera older than 30 years to work properly, unless it has been serviced by a skilled technician. Seals wear out, lubricants dry out and things get out of alignment.
People by one camera after another, but fail to see that they are doing the wrong investment. You can get one proper working camera for the price of three. But most of us don't want to spend that much money.
For example,
* I never found a Contax (II III) or (IIa or IIIa) that had a good working shutter unless it had been serviced.
* I never had any proper working Contaflex
* My Yashica YK had a jammed shutter and a dead rangefinder
* My Yashica Lynx never came back to life
* I never had a Rolleicord without a sticky shutter.
* All of my Canon A-1 camera's are now suffering from cracking plastics.
People by one camera after another, but fail to see that they are doing the wrong investment. You can get one proper working camera for the price of three. But most of us don't want to spend that much money.
For example,
* I never found a Contax (II III) or (IIa or IIIa) that had a good working shutter unless it had been serviced.
* I never had any proper working Contaflex
* My Yashica YK had a jammed shutter and a dead rangefinder
* My Yashica Lynx never came back to life
* I never had a Rolleicord without a sticky shutter.
* All of my Canon A-1 camera's are now suffering from cracking plastics.
thawkins
Well-known
I have a Zorki "C" and a "6". Three lens; Industar 22 and Jupiter J3 and J12 lens. Both cameras are in good condition having been serviced by Yuri. But as one respondent mentioned you do get what you pay for. I bought the "C" for $25 purely out of curiosity of the former enemy's photo gear later bought and the "6" to see if it was an improvement. In some ways it is, but both are "cameras for the comrads" and are otherwise Soviet junk. While tripping the shutter of an M3 is like a religious experience, a Zorki shutter is more akin to a hay baler. The two FSU cameras are like war relics from the other side.. They are interesting and fun to occasionally play with. I have had my fun with them and if any fellow RFF members are interested in purchasing, send me a private message and maybe we can make a deal.
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David Hughes
David Hughes
" While tripping the shutter of an M3 is like a religious experience... "
Hi,
Part of the problem is that you must never criticise other people's religion.
BTW, most FED and Zorkis that have been serviced properly feel just like Barnacks.
Regards, David
Hi,
Part of the problem is that you must never criticise other people's religion.
BTW, most FED and Zorkis that have been serviced properly feel just like Barnacks.
Regards, David
gb hill
Veteran
I remember when I first got into RF camera's, bought a Canonet QL17GIII from a camera store, & he was showing me a Barnack Leica. Nice but I couldn't afford it, cocking it & clicking the shutter it was quite loud. He commented how he loved the sound of those camera's. After joining here I bought a Fed 2 & a Zorki 2C. I found the shutter on the FSU's to be no louder than a Barnack.
The nicest advantage I see personally in a Barnack is they are lighter, smaller & fit a pocket much easier than a FSU.
Recently I was giving a Nicca 3-S & it's the perfect camera for me. Given to me by an RFF member who had issues with it capping, I decided to run a couple of test rolls through it. First was a roll of 100 Arista EDU. No issues at all at speeds 100 & slower so now I have a roll of 400 B&W film to see if there are issuse on the faster speeds. Bottom line is I will send this camera to Youxin Ye for a CLA if need be. Yea I expect to fork out around 200 USD & I really can't afford it but to me to have a good operational camera that will last me a long while is better than pouring 35 here 30 there on gambling on cameras that may crap out after the 3rd or 5th roll. That's what my Fed & Zorki did. If you have a camera, Fed or whatever that you bond with, show it some love.
Here is a photo from the Nicca & 50 Elmar & EDU 100 film I think at 100th of a sec.
The nicest advantage I see personally in a Barnack is they are lighter, smaller & fit a pocket much easier than a FSU.
Recently I was giving a Nicca 3-S & it's the perfect camera for me. Given to me by an RFF member who had issues with it capping, I decided to run a couple of test rolls through it. First was a roll of 100 Arista EDU. No issues at all at speeds 100 & slower so now I have a roll of 400 B&W film to see if there are issuse on the faster speeds. Bottom line is I will send this camera to Youxin Ye for a CLA if need be. Yea I expect to fork out around 200 USD & I really can't afford it but to me to have a good operational camera that will last me a long while is better than pouring 35 here 30 there on gambling on cameras that may crap out after the 3rd or 5th roll. That's what my Fed & Zorki did. If you have a camera, Fed or whatever that you bond with, show it some love.
Here is a photo from the Nicca & 50 Elmar & EDU 100 film I think at 100th of a sec.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
I have a somewhat recently serviced knob wind Fed 3 and it is very nearly as smooth as my IIIf, which is an incredibly smooth operating camera, so I can attest to this fact. The Zorkis I have found to be a bit rougher in operation, but they still have their advantages over the LTM Leicas.
In fact I think soviet quality, at least up to the 70s lies about in the same plane as typical contemporary Japanese quality. We're not talking Pentax or Leica quality here, but more like Yashica or Ricoh. I have been inside a lot of cameras from the 1950s and 60s, and that is how I see it from my observations. Good, but just good. All the horror stories about these cameras seem to be based on people who bought used-up junk, or suffered the mistake of purchasing late-80s, early 90s cameras when they were being churned out more as souvenirs than as real cameras.
thawkins
Well-known
Not critizing anyone's religion. And an instrument that has poor build quality can only be serviced to the level of that build quality.
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
I have 2 Zorki's, a 1 & a 4, all serviced by the seller, Alex.
I bought a Leica Standard from Japan and had it serviced when I got it, by Youxin.
Then a Leica IIIc from DAG, completely overhauled.
The quietest shutter of the lot is the Zorki 1
The next is the Standard, then the IIIc.
The loudest is the Zorki-4 but it is a very solid and clean "clack".
I shoot all of them with 5cm's, an Elmar f3.5, I-22, and J-8.
My overall favorite is the Elmar, next is the I-22 but I can't tell which is sharper.
The J-8 is last, not because the lens is worse, but because I don't care to shoot the larger Zorki-4, it doesn't fit in my pocket like the others. If the J-8 would fit on the Leica IIIc, it would move up in the order, but it won't screw on all the way.
The Zorki-1 was my first camera to buy since my foray back into film. After shooting them all for a while, I should have been satisfied with it, had I not been curious about the "Leica Legend"
It is all fun though, and buying from a reliable service tech is what I would advise, or having a tech go thru anything you get before using it.
I bought a Leica Standard from Japan and had it serviced when I got it, by Youxin.
Then a Leica IIIc from DAG, completely overhauled.
The quietest shutter of the lot is the Zorki 1
The next is the Standard, then the IIIc.
The loudest is the Zorki-4 but it is a very solid and clean "clack".
I shoot all of them with 5cm's, an Elmar f3.5, I-22, and J-8.
My overall favorite is the Elmar, next is the I-22 but I can't tell which is sharper.
The J-8 is last, not because the lens is worse, but because I don't care to shoot the larger Zorki-4, it doesn't fit in my pocket like the others. If the J-8 would fit on the Leica IIIc, it would move up in the order, but it won't screw on all the way.
The Zorki-1 was my first camera to buy since my foray back into film. After shooting them all for a while, I should have been satisfied with it, had I not been curious about the "Leica Legend"
It is all fun though, and buying from a reliable service tech is what I would advise, or having a tech go thru anything you get before using it.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Not true, actually.
A camera can only be serviced up to the level of the design quality. The mechanical FEDs and Zorkis can be improved beyond factory condition by a skilled repairman.
A friend of mine serviced a FED-2 and made some simple adaptations to its innards. It saw a second life as a splendid camera, functioning much better than it had ever been.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
After I serviced my FED-2, it is typical no-religion working camera. Advance is done by rolling of index finger. And my DS M3 ELC, you know, instead of single roll by one finger, I have to do it twice.
Daryl J.
Well-known
Ko.Fe,
Who serviced your FED?
Thanks.
Who serviced your FED?
Thanks.
Joao
Negativistic forever
My experience with FSU cameras
My experience with FSU cameras
Hello
I have or have owned several FSU cameras such as Kristal, Zenits (C, 3M, E, EM, ET, 12XP, 122K, 19, Fotosniper 12), Kiev (4AM, 4, 10, 35-A (2)), Smenas, Komsomolets, Lubitel (2, 166-U), Zorkis (1, 4, 6), FED (2, 5B, 50), Estafeta, Iskra, Junost.
Most were purchased from FSU dealers or UK sellers. From my not so limited experience, I can say that most of these cameras were working well on arrival or needed slight adjustments that I was able to do myself. I remembre a non-working Smena 8M (it rattled when shaked) and a faulty shutter in one of the Kievs 35-A after some use. Other cameras were bought as non-working (ex: the Iskra came as a “for parts” camera from a US seller, was sent to Oleg - he used to repair them at that time – and arrived back in Portugal in perfect working condition; I still use it).
I don’t care very much about the cosmetic condition of the cameras as long as the lenses are clean. Maybe these cameras with heavy signs of use have a great chance of working well, or maybe I was just lucky.
Regards
Joao
My experience with FSU cameras
Hello
I have or have owned several FSU cameras such as Kristal, Zenits (C, 3M, E, EM, ET, 12XP, 122K, 19, Fotosniper 12), Kiev (4AM, 4, 10, 35-A (2)), Smenas, Komsomolets, Lubitel (2, 166-U), Zorkis (1, 4, 6), FED (2, 5B, 50), Estafeta, Iskra, Junost.
Most were purchased from FSU dealers or UK sellers. From my not so limited experience, I can say that most of these cameras were working well on arrival or needed slight adjustments that I was able to do myself. I remembre a non-working Smena 8M (it rattled when shaked) and a faulty shutter in one of the Kievs 35-A after some use. Other cameras were bought as non-working (ex: the Iskra came as a “for parts” camera from a US seller, was sent to Oleg - he used to repair them at that time – and arrived back in Portugal in perfect working condition; I still use it).
I don’t care very much about the cosmetic condition of the cameras as long as the lenses are clean. Maybe these cameras with heavy signs of use have a great chance of working well, or maybe I was just lucky.
Regards
Joao
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
Sometimes: clean lens = not being used for a reason
In the autumn I bought a late 1960s "Zebra" Industar-61 with 10 aperture blades and click-stop, which is not very common version.
The lens was super clean, even without those dirty oxidation on the aluminium as you see on almost every zebra I-61, it looked like untouched in the past several decades.
But it didn't focus well when arrived, test showed that the lens blocked was screwed in one extra turn, thus the front focus. I loosened the lens block fixing screw, unscrewed the block by one turn, and put the screw back, didn't even need to bother with shims. And in the end I got a nice and sharp I-61.
Just one of my stories about clean FSU lenses.
Steve M.
Veteran
Yes, they make excellent rear lens caps :]
It's too bad because they're good designs (usually Leica copies), yet the materials and workmanship....you get what you pay for on this stuff. How many people would own a Soviet car given the opportunity?
It's too bad because they're good designs (usually Leica copies), yet the materials and workmanship....you get what you pay for on this stuff. How many people would own a Soviet car given the opportunity?
wolves3012
Veteran
My "sample size" is probably bigger than most, I have or have had around 25-30 FSUs. Of those one was bought as "spares or repair" and wasn't repairable but the lens was good - a J8 that now gets use on my IIIC. One was bought very cheaply for what it was (a FED NKVD, 1939) and that was repairable. The only failures I've had are on the later FEDs, where the shutter cloth is poor quality and loses its rubber coating. A few in my collection needed servicing to work properly and nearly all of them have been at some point.
I think part of the reason for my "luck" is that I bought them all a few years ago, before the market got too far into the back-of-the-cupboard-finds, once the sellers ran out of "users" and the prices went relatively high. Some of mine have clearly seen heavy use and are still working fine.
From working on the innards of quite a few FSUs over the years, they are simple in design and relatively agricultural (best word I can find) so they never have quite the smoothness and finish of japanese or german cameras but with a bit of care they can come close. Mostly they do seem to be made of reasonable quality materials as well. Interestingly, the quietest shutter I have on any FP-shutter camera is on a Zorki 1. That one required a repair to a worn-out bearing and whilst it was apart it was fully CLAd with modern lubricants. It's quieter than my IIIC and you'd be hard pressed to tell it from a genuine Leica, blindfolded, in terms of winder smoothness etc.
At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. If you're willing to invest the time or money in a proper CLA and if you bought one that wasn't a junker or attic-find, they are not bad cameras. Not quite as refined as other makes maybe but the lenses are generally very good for their era - let's face it the lens (and photographer) make the image, as long as the body performs basic functions.
I think part of the reason for my "luck" is that I bought them all a few years ago, before the market got too far into the back-of-the-cupboard-finds, once the sellers ran out of "users" and the prices went relatively high. Some of mine have clearly seen heavy use and are still working fine.
From working on the innards of quite a few FSUs over the years, they are simple in design and relatively agricultural (best word I can find) so they never have quite the smoothness and finish of japanese or german cameras but with a bit of care they can come close. Mostly they do seem to be made of reasonable quality materials as well. Interestingly, the quietest shutter I have on any FP-shutter camera is on a Zorki 1. That one required a repair to a worn-out bearing and whilst it was apart it was fully CLAd with modern lubricants. It's quieter than my IIIC and you'd be hard pressed to tell it from a genuine Leica, blindfolded, in terms of winder smoothness etc.
At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. If you're willing to invest the time or money in a proper CLA and if you bought one that wasn't a junker or attic-find, they are not bad cameras. Not quite as refined as other makes maybe but the lenses are generally very good for their era - let's face it the lens (and photographer) make the image, as long as the body performs basic functions.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Oleg put it back together once. Second time I did it all by myself. I'm reading Russian books... FED-2 and Zorki, those two with cloth shutter cameras I could CLA and have shutter clouth replaced. I fixed Moskva-5 DOA once as well.
Some of FSU cameras and lenses simplicity is blessing, I wouldn't be able to CLA any of my M or even IIF Leica I have once.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I've only two FEDs where I can say anything about the materials it's made from and in both cases it was brass; although it might just be gold...
If I remember correctly early die casting had a lot of problems and didn't last long but improved a lot once the QC problem was cracked. That rather suggests the USSR QC was OK because it had to be 100% correct to last more than a year or so. That's something a well known and world famous manufacturer didn't suss out until it was too late and horror stories about it abounded. But nothing to do with cameras, just a passing comment.
Oh yes, and some of the lens caps are Bakelite, just like Leicas are.
The glass looks like glass to me as well.
Regards, David
I've only two FEDs where I can say anything about the materials it's made from and in both cases it was brass; although it might just be gold...
If I remember correctly early die casting had a lot of problems and didn't last long but improved a lot once the QC problem was cracked. That rather suggests the USSR QC was OK because it had to be 100% correct to last more than a year or so. That's something a well known and world famous manufacturer didn't suss out until it was too late and horror stories about it abounded. But nothing to do with cameras, just a passing comment.
Oh yes, and some of the lens caps are Bakelite, just like Leicas are.
The glass looks like glass to me as well.
Regards, David
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I have come to the conclusion that FSU camera gear and to a lesser extent the East German made stuff (before the unification) is all in a class of its own.
I would not rely on them if I made my living taking photographs but it is an interesting sideline for a hobbyist, if one is inclined not being overly bothered if the camera or lens self destructs or produces mediocre results.
It reminds me of the guys that keep 1960s and 1970s MG and/or Triumph sports cars in the shed behind the garage as a hobby and spend every second summer's weekend tinkering with them and maybe going for a ride in them, but not for too long or too far.
I would not rely on them if I made my living taking photographs but it is an interesting sideline for a hobbyist, if one is inclined not being overly bothered if the camera or lens self destructs or produces mediocre results.
It reminds me of the guys that keep 1960s and 1970s MG and/or Triumph sports cars in the shed behind the garage as a hobby and spend every second summer's weekend tinkering with them and maybe going for a ride in them, but not for too long or too far.