xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I find the collapsible Industar 22 lens to be well made and can be very good optically.
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
This probably explains why my Zorki 1 is such a nice quiet camera with no rough spots in the train, except for the tight spool. As I collect spools, I switch them around until I find one with a good fit.
The I-22 is a beautiful lens too.
The I-22 is a beautiful lens too.
css9450
Veteran
Do the spools make a difference? My Zorki 4 doesn't exactly have a buttery smooth winding feel like my Japanese cameras do. Surely its not the spool, is it? I can't recall specifically winding it without film in the camera, if it felt differently. I keep meaning to shop for another spool, since mine has a chip out of the bottom flange, but there's film in the camera at the moment.
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
On a Zorki-1 a tight fitting spool is hard to extract when loading film.
Zorki-4 spools are not a friction fit, they have some sort of slots or pins.
My Zorki-4 doesn't wind super-smooth either, but it has never torn or fouled the film.
Zorki-4 spools are not a friction fit, they have some sort of slots or pins.
My Zorki-4 doesn't wind super-smooth either, but it has never torn or fouled the film.
kb244
Well-known
I have only had two FSU cameras, a pair of feds which I had received in trade for my Canonet QL-17 GIII and a Seagull SA-85 TLR back in 2007.
The picture of the pair when I received them back in 2007.
2C Type 2A on left, and a 2A on the right. The left was working but was more or less as it was received by the owner. The one on the right was CLA'd by the previous owner. He made comments about how a lot of the FSU cameras seemed like they were serviced by tank mechanics wound up so tightly that it's like a gun going off when the shutter fires.
Said that he had properly tuned it, lubed it, adjusted it to be very smooth and even modified the shutter speed knob so that it could be operated regardless of whether or not the shutter was cocked. Meaning it wouldn't damage the mechanism if you turned it either way, you just simply wouldn't know what speed was selected until you cocked it.
The 2A that was serviced was the one I kept of the two along with that Industar-10 50/3.5 collapsible, and like he said it not only felt very solid but it seemed to operate very smoothly and accurately without feeling like a rat trap went off in your hand. Probably the best Leica styled rangefinder I have aside from the Canon P I owned and the Canon 7 I have now. My only gripe with it is that the viewfinder/RF spot isn't the greatest, but it's certainly usable and I have not needed to adjust it yet.
I never got around to using the Zorkis and similar, but I've had my fair share of playing with various Industar and Jupiter lens, the Jupiter-12 35/2.8 and Jupiter-11 135/4 being among my favorites (sadly I no longer have the J-12).
In a nutshell, with just my experience with the 2A that was professionally tuned, I feel like they can be tanks, but well-precisioned if work goes into it. But out in the wild (purchasing, not shooting), I'm reluctant to just pick one up because it seems like they can be hit-or-miss.
The picture of the pair when I received them back in 2007.
2C Type 2A on left, and a 2A on the right. The left was working but was more or less as it was received by the owner. The one on the right was CLA'd by the previous owner. He made comments about how a lot of the FSU cameras seemed like they were serviced by tank mechanics wound up so tightly that it's like a gun going off when the shutter fires.
Said that he had properly tuned it, lubed it, adjusted it to be very smooth and even modified the shutter speed knob so that it could be operated regardless of whether or not the shutter was cocked. Meaning it wouldn't damage the mechanism if you turned it either way, you just simply wouldn't know what speed was selected until you cocked it.
The 2A that was serviced was the one I kept of the two along with that Industar-10 50/3.5 collapsible, and like he said it not only felt very solid but it seemed to operate very smoothly and accurately without feeling like a rat trap went off in your hand. Probably the best Leica styled rangefinder I have aside from the Canon P I owned and the Canon 7 I have now. My only gripe with it is that the viewfinder/RF spot isn't the greatest, but it's certainly usable and I have not needed to adjust it yet.
I never got around to using the Zorkis and similar, but I've had my fair share of playing with various Industar and Jupiter lens, the Jupiter-12 35/2.8 and Jupiter-11 135/4 being among my favorites (sadly I no longer have the J-12).
In a nutshell, with just my experience with the 2A that was professionally tuned, I feel like they can be tanks, but well-precisioned if work goes into it. But out in the wild (purchasing, not shooting), I'm reluctant to just pick one up because it seems like they can be hit-or-miss.
Attachments
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
It is exactly the opposite with my choice. I grab the Zorki-1 when I think the going will be rough.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I had a Leica IIIc from a dealer with a good reputation; it mangled and ripped the first film through it only the film didn't go through it but snarled up after about a dozen shots. Luckily it was repaired under guarantee.
As I see it, it's just a machine and age, use and the previous owner determine what it does and how it does it. After 40, 50 or 60 years you just can't blame the makers, can you?
Regards, David
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Interesting comments above.
With FED-2 you could change shutter speed at any time. It is made like this.
I-22, 50 are fine lenses for next to free price. I lost my count on having, selling, getting them.
I-50 rigid is most ugliest lens I ever hold, but it was crazy sharp as well.
With FED-2 you could change shutter speed at any time. It is made like this.
I-22, 50 are fine lenses for next to free price. I lost my count on having, selling, getting them.
I-50 rigid is most ugliest lens I ever hold, but it was crazy sharp as well.
johnf04
Well-known
My first camera was a Zenit 3m, bought new. I traded it for a new Praktica LLC, in 1973. The Praktica is still going strong, albeit with a dead meter.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
I owned a Praktica MTL-3 a while back. Built like tank. Simple, decent camera. Reminiscent of a Pentax K1000, which was one of the first cameras I ever used.
Then I owned a Praktica BMS. Plastic body, very crappy compared to the MTL-3. The electronic metering was cool, but the camera's plasticky construction did not inspire confidence.
Then I strangely decided to buy a Werra. In retrospect, I think I have some kind of pathology about buying cameras that are decidedly odd and difficult to use. The Werra worked for a couple rolls, then stopped. The integrated F-stop and shutter speed ring system is absolutely bizzare. Very difficult to repair, from what I've read.
And finally, the PENTINA. An ergonomic nightmare -- almost as bad as the WERRA. The Pentina worked for one roll, then stopped. I couldn't be bothered to figure out what the problem was, so now it's a curious Commie paperweight in my office.
Then I owned a Praktica BMS. Plastic body, very crappy compared to the MTL-3. The electronic metering was cool, but the camera's plasticky construction did not inspire confidence.
Then I strangely decided to buy a Werra. In retrospect, I think I have some kind of pathology about buying cameras that are decidedly odd and difficult to use. The Werra worked for a couple rolls, then stopped. The integrated F-stop and shutter speed ring system is absolutely bizzare. Very difficult to repair, from what I've read.
And finally, the PENTINA. An ergonomic nightmare -- almost as bad as the WERRA. The Pentina worked for one roll, then stopped. I couldn't be bothered to figure out what the problem was, so now it's a curious Commie paperweight in my office.
kb244
Well-known
I'm talking bout purchasing in the wild, not shooting in the wild. (service condition, etc unknown)
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
This is a picture taken with the Jupiter-8 that came with the broken Zorki 4 that started this thread.
Film is Fomapan 200 in HC-110.
Film is Fomapan 200 in HC-110.
traveler_101
American abroad
I know what you mean - nice analogy. That said, I really love British sports cars, at least from a distance (said by someone who doesn't even own a car) and wish they were still around - I recall the Austin Healey driven by sexy Tippi Hedren in Hitchcock's The Birds.
No experience with Russian (FSU) cameras, but I went through three or four bad lenses before I got two good ones. Bad - yes: rattling pieces of industar junk (sorry). Again brand did seem to have something to do with it. I now have Jupiters - 8 and 12 - both bought form a trusted seller in Latvia.
Spanik
Well-known
Can't help but agree with those that say that all cameras need some cla once and a while. My Praktica MTL-3 has been working for more than 30 years now. Must have put hundreds of rolls through it. The Zorki 4k I got from a neighbourgh has been dragged by him around the world and works fine for its age (seals need replacement). I send both P6's to a cla and ran dozens of films through them without issues.
RichC
Well-known
Or motorcycles... I spent a year and $15,000 (!) modifying my Italian motorcycle so it was usable by a normal person (as opposed to someone with unfeasibly short legs and long arms, and gorilla-strong hands to operate the controls), worked in the rain, and actually went around corners...!
A bad photo of it below...
FSU cameras can be made reliable and to perform, but it takes a lot of effort... Though as has been pointed out, this applies to a lot of Eastern Bloc goods, such as East German cameras. Another camera I bought as it was recommended to me as one of the best folders was the Certo Six. It wasn't good at all! Again, I had to modify it heavily for reliable everyday use: here's my saga of finding a folding 120 camera I could actually use, http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65609
DFigueira
Established
From my POV, me who owns a lot of DDR cameras, I think their quality depends on the years. All the cameras I have up to 58', are well built. Then the quality goes down.
Of all the 60's cameras made, there are 2 or 3 gems on all the "crappiness quality". Only a few models later are good enough (Praktica L series), but even though, they suffer alot of issues.
About FSU, I only have a Lubi so...
Of all the 60's cameras made, there are 2 or 3 gems on all the "crappiness quality". Only a few models later are good enough (Praktica L series), but even though, they suffer alot of issues.
About FSU, I only have a Lubi so...
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Guess it depends on what you're buying. Have had two Zorki 4s that worked fine when I got them, and a 4K that worked except for the slow speeds, which is not an uncommon problem for any camera that age.
Three Feds that all worked fine, except something had damaged the viewfinder prism in the 5c.
I've lost count of how many Exas I've bought and sold. All were functional, although a couple needed some internal cleaning and refreshing of lubricants.
A few Exaktas, they all got cleaning and lube because it would be stupid not to. I've avoided years with bad curtains, but Leica collectors do the same thing, so...
The only soviet camera that hasn't worked right for me is the Kiev. There is always some elementary flaw that cannot be corrected by a rudimentary cleaning and lube. The shutter hangs up or the speed dial doesn't work right, or the rewind release doesn't work right... on top of that the fit and finish is not exactly impressive, so I gave up on these.
On the whole my experience with west German and Japanese cameras has been no better than my experience with FSU and east German cameras.
There is a drastic fall in quality from Exakta during the period when they were facing litigation relating to trademarks. This was also a period when they were producing what was no longer a competitive design. The IIb and early VX1000 can be pretty shoddy cameras. Interestingly I've noted that fit and finish actually improved noticeably after Exakta was rolled into Pentacon. Late VX1000 and VX500 cameras are definitely better put together.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Almost every camera I have had for 20, 30 or more years has needed attention once or twice. And they were all Japanese made, my Olympus XA was bought new and the RF failed and it was repaired at some expense after being returned again. Thinking it was fragile I bought the XA2 for a pocket camera when dog walking etc. It also failed, shutter jammed and was repaired etc. Then there were two Leicas and my (comparatively) recent IIIc. And some Jaanese SLR's...
And I paid serious money for them all, two were brand new and the first Leica was a couple of years old and second-hand, the second came highly recommended from a dealer and so on and so forth.
My Leica model II is now coming up for another service etc and I think I ought to scrap it if, and only if, I use the logic some use. Meaning only repair if you can sell at a profit or get your money back but that's the logic of camera dealer; not the logic of a photographer.
Looking at it in terms of performance I'd can't see any major differences between my Zorki 1, FED I and Leica II but they've all been treated the same way; meaning used, serviced and repaired if necessary. I can't imagine any machine from the 1930's, 40's or 50's that won't need a bit of attention from time to time.
Regards, David
PS. About British cars, do you mean Honda and Nissan and Toyota etc?
Almost every camera I have had for 20, 30 or more years has needed attention once or twice. And they were all Japanese made, my Olympus XA was bought new and the RF failed and it was repaired at some expense after being returned again. Thinking it was fragile I bought the XA2 for a pocket camera when dog walking etc. It also failed, shutter jammed and was repaired etc. Then there were two Leicas and my (comparatively) recent IIIc. And some Jaanese SLR's...
And I paid serious money for them all, two were brand new and the first Leica was a couple of years old and second-hand, the second came highly recommended from a dealer and so on and so forth.
My Leica model II is now coming up for another service etc and I think I ought to scrap it if, and only if, I use the logic some use. Meaning only repair if you can sell at a profit or get your money back but that's the logic of camera dealer; not the logic of a photographer.
Looking at it in terms of performance I'd can't see any major differences between my Zorki 1, FED I and Leica II but they've all been treated the same way; meaning used, serviced and repaired if necessary. I can't imagine any machine from the 1930's, 40's or 50's that won't need a bit of attention from time to time.
Regards, David
PS. About British cars, do you mean Honda and Nissan and Toyota etc?
The footpeg position of the Le Mans was, and still is, odd. The period Ducati competition may have had an even worse lean forward over the tank, but, at least they realised that the pegs needed to be further back if the rider was to avoid contorting themselves into a pretzel. Which is what the poor Le Mans rider would have to do in order to actually ride the bike for any length of time. To be fair, an 850 Le Mans is a more comfortable thing to ride at around 100mph, by which point the wind flow has take the weight off your wrists, and it is, after all, how they were made to be ridden. The control levers can feel heavy, but only before you get off a 3CL or early Jota, at which point, they will regain their proper featherweight feel.Or motorcycles... I spent a year and $15,000 (!) modifying my Italian motorcycle so it was usable by a normal person (as opposed to someone with unfeasibly short legs and long arms, and gorilla-strong hands to operate the controls), worked in the rain, and actually went around corners...!
A bad photo of it below...
FSU cameras can be made reliable and to perform, but it takes a lot of effort... Though as has been pointed out, this applies to a lot of Eastern Bloc goods, such as East German cameras. Another camera I bought as it was recommended to me as one of the best folders was the Certo Six. It wasn't good at all! Again, I had to modify it heavily for reliable everyday use: here's my saga of finding a folding 120 camera I could actually use, http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65609
Cheers
Brett