pixelatedscraps
Well-known
I purchased a Nikon D600 in November 2012, just after it was announced. I was a very happy owner as it promised to be an affordable, high quality, and compact full frame camera. It would, conveniently, replace a sold D700 and a dead D3 that I had owned previously.
Within a few months, I started reading horror stories of dust and then oil spots appearing in the top left and bottom corners of images. My D600 was fine, until about 9 months later - this would be July/August 2013 - when I started noticing spots after doing a particularly gruelling 6 hour product shoot (hey, gotta pay the bills, right?) against white background. All 250 images had to be photoshopped in post because I stupidly didn't zoom in on the corners during review. Thankfully most were in the same position and relative size so they could be batch-fixed. When I look back at other non-professional (ie candid, travel) I notice about 80% of the images I shot in the preceding 9 months contain spots in the top left, bottom left and right corners. I had just never shot on a plain white background before.
Take the D600 to Nikon where it gets cleaned and when I bring up the dust / oil sensor issue that is making the rounds on the internet, the Nikon staff simply shrug and say they haven't heard a thing about it.
Jump forward about 2 months and I'm coming to the end of my 12-month warranty. I notice a few light specks in images and, fearing having to pay for future cleanings, I take it to Nikon and have the same conversation (with shrugs) with Nikon staff while they clean the camera. This time they promise the spots won't return as the problem was 'solved'.
Roughly 6 weeks later in January 2014, the spots are back and darker and larger than before. I take it back to Nikon and after I leave the camera at the service centre for a few days, they call to inform me the shutter assembly will be replaced. A quick fistpump and a silent thank you to Nikon, and I'm happy again. It went some way to assuaging the frustration at constantly having to return to Nikon to 'fix' what was a US$2199 camera at launch. When I return to pick up the camera, the staff proudly tell me the problem has been repaired for good. I'm happy.
About a month later, I'm halfway through a restaurant shoot for a new client when I start seeing a dark trail across a few images like the shutter is dragging. Boom. Camera throws up an ERR sign on the top LCD. Shut it down, remove battery. Let the camera cool, finally do a soft reset. Nothing. Nada. Don't have a second body with me as I can't afford one and my D3 had died of corrosion about a year ago. Stupidity on me. Beyond bemusement at Nikon.
Return to Nikon (lost count now) and they hum and haw over it for a good half hour. The manager comes out and apologises profusely after I kick up a fuss at how much of a joke Nikon has become at its handling of an obviously poorly designed D600.
With the reshoot scheduled for two days later, Nikon promises it'll be ready on the morning of my shoot. It is, thankfully. But I no longer have any faith in Nikon at all. I am a hair away from packing it all in and selling all my Nikon gear except that it would take weeks to offload it and my options in Canon world aren't exactly stellar: 6D or MKIII with banding issues, subpar dynamic range and poor high ios performance? No thanks. Crop frame for full time work? Not there yet, Fuji / MFT / Sony.
And this is when I sell a kidney (aka a Zeiss) and pick up a D800E. My alternatives aren't great. I could have bit the bullet and shot that reshoot with the twice-repaired and thrice-cleaned D600 but I don't trust it to last more than 1000 shots before the issue comes back. It's not a fluke anymore, this is a concrete issue despite replacing the shutter assembly with a new one (contrary to rumour mongering, Nikon doesn't replace them with D610 shutters). It WILL come back. Switching to Canon puts me out of action for weeks. No good options.
So where am I now? I've got a dodgy D600 with a new shutter assembly and a new image sensor. In 15 months it hasn't worked properly or as advertised once. I spent over US$2000 on a supposedly professional body (Nikon NPS calls it a professional body even though DPR doesn't) that hasn't delivered on what Nikon advertised it was capable of doing. I've joined the class-action suit filed by Lieff Cabraser and written to Nikon Asia expressing my disappointment and anger at the lack of admittance to a product with an inherent design flaw and lack of official product recall. The D600 was replaced on store shelves by the D610 in one third of the time pro Nikon bodies have traditionally been replaced. That is telling already.
I don't dare use the D600 for anything approaching professional work. I am going to baby it like its been injured. Except it hasn't been injured, it was born this way.
/end rant
Within a few months, I started reading horror stories of dust and then oil spots appearing in the top left and bottom corners of images. My D600 was fine, until about 9 months later - this would be July/August 2013 - when I started noticing spots after doing a particularly gruelling 6 hour product shoot (hey, gotta pay the bills, right?) against white background. All 250 images had to be photoshopped in post because I stupidly didn't zoom in on the corners during review. Thankfully most were in the same position and relative size so they could be batch-fixed. When I look back at other non-professional (ie candid, travel) I notice about 80% of the images I shot in the preceding 9 months contain spots in the top left, bottom left and right corners. I had just never shot on a plain white background before.
Take the D600 to Nikon where it gets cleaned and when I bring up the dust / oil sensor issue that is making the rounds on the internet, the Nikon staff simply shrug and say they haven't heard a thing about it.
Jump forward about 2 months and I'm coming to the end of my 12-month warranty. I notice a few light specks in images and, fearing having to pay for future cleanings, I take it to Nikon and have the same conversation (with shrugs) with Nikon staff while they clean the camera. This time they promise the spots won't return as the problem was 'solved'.
Roughly 6 weeks later in January 2014, the spots are back and darker and larger than before. I take it back to Nikon and after I leave the camera at the service centre for a few days, they call to inform me the shutter assembly will be replaced. A quick fistpump and a silent thank you to Nikon, and I'm happy again. It went some way to assuaging the frustration at constantly having to return to Nikon to 'fix' what was a US$2199 camera at launch. When I return to pick up the camera, the staff proudly tell me the problem has been repaired for good. I'm happy.
About a month later, I'm halfway through a restaurant shoot for a new client when I start seeing a dark trail across a few images like the shutter is dragging. Boom. Camera throws up an ERR sign on the top LCD. Shut it down, remove battery. Let the camera cool, finally do a soft reset. Nothing. Nada. Don't have a second body with me as I can't afford one and my D3 had died of corrosion about a year ago. Stupidity on me. Beyond bemusement at Nikon.
Return to Nikon (lost count now) and they hum and haw over it for a good half hour. The manager comes out and apologises profusely after I kick up a fuss at how much of a joke Nikon has become at its handling of an obviously poorly designed D600.
With the reshoot scheduled for two days later, Nikon promises it'll be ready on the morning of my shoot. It is, thankfully. But I no longer have any faith in Nikon at all. I am a hair away from packing it all in and selling all my Nikon gear except that it would take weeks to offload it and my options in Canon world aren't exactly stellar: 6D or MKIII with banding issues, subpar dynamic range and poor high ios performance? No thanks. Crop frame for full time work? Not there yet, Fuji / MFT / Sony.
And this is when I sell a kidney (aka a Zeiss) and pick up a D800E. My alternatives aren't great. I could have bit the bullet and shot that reshoot with the twice-repaired and thrice-cleaned D600 but I don't trust it to last more than 1000 shots before the issue comes back. It's not a fluke anymore, this is a concrete issue despite replacing the shutter assembly with a new one (contrary to rumour mongering, Nikon doesn't replace them with D610 shutters). It WILL come back. Switching to Canon puts me out of action for weeks. No good options.
So where am I now? I've got a dodgy D600 with a new shutter assembly and a new image sensor. In 15 months it hasn't worked properly or as advertised once. I spent over US$2000 on a supposedly professional body (Nikon NPS calls it a professional body even though DPR doesn't) that hasn't delivered on what Nikon advertised it was capable of doing. I've joined the class-action suit filed by Lieff Cabraser and written to Nikon Asia expressing my disappointment and anger at the lack of admittance to a product with an inherent design flaw and lack of official product recall. The D600 was replaced on store shelves by the D610 in one third of the time pro Nikon bodies have traditionally been replaced. That is telling already.
I don't dare use the D600 for anything approaching professional work. I am going to baby it like its been injured. Except it hasn't been injured, it was born this way.
/end rant
redisburning
Well-known
it's not a rant if you're 100% justified in what you're saying.
Are you going to stick it out with Nikon going forward? If Canon had better sensors, would you switch?
Anyway I hope your D800e works out better for you.
Are you going to stick it out with Nikon going forward? If Canon had better sensors, would you switch?
Anyway I hope your D800e works out better for you.
pixelatedscraps
Well-known
Well, I have all the invoices and comments from the Nikon service centre so there is proof in black and white. I've lost track of how many follow up calls I've had with Nikon Hong Kong management - this happened a lot more after I told them I was also a journalist as well as a commercial photographer and was more than happy to highlight the issues in local magazines and newspapers. I tried not to get angry and threatening but it was hard at that point.
I would have switched if I didn't have 3 big projects lined up for the next two weeks, not to mention a travel story happening this weekend - all of which require a camera I'm familiar with and the required lenses. It isn't really an issue with Canon's 5D MKIII sensor or the ergonomics I dislike - pretty much all high end cameras can perform at a good enough level for what I do, and half the enjoyment can come from learning a new system. Since subscribing to Diglloyd and reading Ming Thein, perhaps my standards have risen and I demand more?
The D800 / D800E I'm confident in. It's a proven camera now that the early left focus issues were resolved. All cutting edge cameras have their issues, the D600 ones have just been ignored up until mid-February when Nikon issued their latest 'unlimited cleanings' repair advisory. That's not good enough though. Any company who values professionalism and customer service in the face of a faulty product should issue a recall. Sadly, Nikon isn't doing that.
I would have switched if I didn't have 3 big projects lined up for the next two weeks, not to mention a travel story happening this weekend - all of which require a camera I'm familiar with and the required lenses. It isn't really an issue with Canon's 5D MKIII sensor or the ergonomics I dislike - pretty much all high end cameras can perform at a good enough level for what I do, and half the enjoyment can come from learning a new system. Since subscribing to Diglloyd and reading Ming Thein, perhaps my standards have risen and I demand more?
The D800 / D800E I'm confident in. It's a proven camera now that the early left focus issues were resolved. All cutting edge cameras have their issues, the D600 ones have just been ignored up until mid-February when Nikon issued their latest 'unlimited cleanings' repair advisory. That's not good enough though. Any company who values professionalism and customer service in the face of a faulty product should issue a recall. Sadly, Nikon isn't doing that.
pixelatedscraps
Well-known
I won't post his name here but when asked, the manager of the Nikon service centre in Hong Kong - after much exasperated prodding - finally admitted to me that he would be 'very upset at Nikon' if he was in my situation.
When asked if he would have wanted Nikon to recall the product? No comment.
Haha.
When asked if he would have wanted Nikon to recall the product? No comment.
Haha.
GaryLH
Veteran
This episode has in my mind damaged Nikon's reputation. It is going to take a long time for it to be repaired.
Gary
Gary
pixelatedscraps
Well-known
I wonder how much it has actually damaged their opinion though. Pro NPS members shooting D4s and D800Es aren't likely to pay attention to what they consider a prosumer body with generally great NPS customer service and close to exceptional performance with their high end bodies.
Rival brand shooters who pay attention? Yet more ammo for the fanboys but for most, it's not likely something to register unless you've actually been there and experienced something like this from a massive company. I've had similar experiences with banks and telecoms firms in Hong Kong which is why I AM giving a **** about this one, camera geek or not.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I would have bought a used D700 or D3 rather than give them the profit from selling you a new D800.
Canon doesn't have that much better a record, only that it's problems happened earlier. Hoping Fuji steps up and develops a competitive system we can rely on.
Canon doesn't have that much better a record, only that it's problems happened earlier. Hoping Fuji steps up and develops a competitive system we can rely on.
pixelatedscraps
Well-known
That was my initial thought too, but both bodies are approaching what, 6-7 years old now? How long would they last without guarantees I kept asking myself. I should have had a working second body anyway as someone who makes a living from photography, and you can't really go down a level from the D600/D610.
The D3 / D700 have held their value quite well and a D3 goes for about US$1600 second hand. Here in Hong Kong, I picked up a brand new D800E for roughly US$2,400. It was a no brainer once I made the decision I would stick with Nikon for professional reasons. It hurt my pride a bit, but I felt like I made the right decision in light of where I want my photography to go.
The D3 / D700 have held their value quite well and a D3 goes for about US$1600 second hand. Here in Hong Kong, I picked up a brand new D800E for roughly US$2,400. It was a no brainer once I made the decision I would stick with Nikon for professional reasons. It hurt my pride a bit, but I felt like I made the right decision in light of where I want my photography to go.
GaryLH
Veteran
I think people on the fence.. Canon or Nikon or something else.. Gives them a second thought about Nikon.
I have been a Nikon user since the fe2. I almost bought another Nikon dslr.. I had even thought about the d600 at the time prior to the shutter issues surfacing. But decided I really don't need ff in my type if photography. Now, personally, I am not sure.. So I will just sit it out for a while on any Nikon upgrades.. Just keep on using my old apsc dslr.
Gary
pixelatedscraps
Well-known
You're right. I hadn't thought about that massive demographic
Despite my love for Nikon, let's hope they google and discover threads like this!
Have you asked for a D610 as a replacement?
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Here in the USA, on the Fred Miranda forum, you see many professional cameras being sold at reasonable prices ~ with minimal use, mostly under 10,000 exposures ~ because there are so many equipment fetishists who undoubtedly had to upgrade.
Two used but mint D700 bodies would be a more reliable kit than simply having one body.... or even a DX body as a back up.
Also remember that while the D700 design is 7 years old, the last bodies were made only 18 months or so ago. And frankly I haven't had file or image quality limitations since the D70-D2x era of cameras - as long as you don't need high ISO or are cropping a lot, I haven't seen people run out of image resolution in years....
Of course you mentioned your D3 became corroded and failed... that seems pretty uncommon to me, especially since they are more robust bodies, what do you do that is so rough on your equipment?
redisburning
Well-known
most of the people on FM are working pros.
the equipment fetishists are way more common here and on l user forum.
the equipment fetishists are way more common here and on l user forum.
Ranchu
Veteran
Nothing wrong with that, lenses are magic. Anyone disagrees? And hey, "working pros" are pretty boring. I've looked at that miranda thing. It's no different than DPreview, with more polo shirted bla bla bla.
Gary Sandhu
Well-known
Yeah, get the D700. Sucks about the D600.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Haha well I've bought a lot of great low mileage gear from the "pros" at Fred Miranda then ;-)
pixelatedscraps
Well-known
Yep, I even ended my rant in front of them with:
'I don't have anything against any of you here but it is painfully obvious that something has been wrong with this camera design from day 1. If I have to come back a 6th time to repair or clean this camera - you can keep it. I will gift it to you (the manager) so you can use it as a paperweight to remind you of just how much Nikon has let it's customers down. I won't want it. I won't need it. Because it simply does NOT work.'
There is no D610 replacement program here in Hong Kong / China / Asia as far as I am aware. I have only seen forum posts on the topic from users in the USA so far.
pixelatedscraps
Well-known
The D700 is a great camera, sure. I owned one and loved it but I don't see the benefits of purchasing one to use as a primary camera for professional reasons in 2014. Now if / when I gift or sell my D600, the D700 is likely to be a very real option as a backup body. Ideally, I'm looking for a D3S though. I always use a battery grip anyway and love the heft and weight of a full sized camera.
The D3 I took with me to Gozo (Malta) one summer and spent the entire trip either by the ocean or on it in a variety of boats. Not sure what happened as I'm certain I hardly got nothing more than spray on it but it suddenly died one day without even an ERR warning. It was 7 months past it's warranty (I purchased it second hand) and when I took it to Nikon they gave me a quote of US$1000 to repair it due to 'corrosion'. I baulked at the price, perhaps it was even a case of something lost in translation, and sold the body for almost nothing.
__jc
Well-known
My son has has some long-term health issues and, as he's always been interested in photography but wasn't able to get out too much to use his Mamiya 7 kit, and was conscious of the cost of film and processing, my wife and I decided to get him a digital camera. After researching elsewhere and via K Rockwell who raved about the D600 and pooh-poohed the idea of the oil-on-sensor problem, we got a D600.
Of course straight away it had the oil problem. As we'd rather foolishly bought grey market to save a few dollars the only recourse to warranty service was shipping it off to China or somewhere where it might or might not be repaired. So we spent $100 on a wet sensor clean locally and it fixed the issue - for about a week. Another sensor clean and, at a significant loss, we sold it.
I cannot begin to say how pissed off at Nikon we are over this crappy camera and the way they denied that it had problems. Or K Rockwell for that matter, as it has obviously always been a significant and well-known issue. At least Thom Hogan was honest enough to retract his good review when he became aware of the issue.
However, and this really gets me, it worked to their advantage because, as we have a collection of Nikon stuff from film days, we ended up buying a D800E with a local warranty (or, rather, I bought it and swapped it with him for his Mamiya 7 kit). The D800E is a great camera - no issues whatsoever. But the bad taste - especially due to the fact that it cost us so much money when it is really difficult financially with his medical bills - lingers. It's just that it would have cost us even more money to change systems.
So, Nikon, a shameful exercise that I hope will never be repeated by you or any other company. Oh, and once this camera has gotten too long in the tooth, and if we are in an OK financial situation by then, I won't ever be buying Nikon again.
Of course straight away it had the oil problem. As we'd rather foolishly bought grey market to save a few dollars the only recourse to warranty service was shipping it off to China or somewhere where it might or might not be repaired. So we spent $100 on a wet sensor clean locally and it fixed the issue - for about a week. Another sensor clean and, at a significant loss, we sold it.
I cannot begin to say how pissed off at Nikon we are over this crappy camera and the way they denied that it had problems. Or K Rockwell for that matter, as it has obviously always been a significant and well-known issue. At least Thom Hogan was honest enough to retract his good review when he became aware of the issue.
However, and this really gets me, it worked to their advantage because, as we have a collection of Nikon stuff from film days, we ended up buying a D800E with a local warranty (or, rather, I bought it and swapped it with him for his Mamiya 7 kit). The D800E is a great camera - no issues whatsoever. But the bad taste - especially due to the fact that it cost us so much money when it is really difficult financially with his medical bills - lingers. It's just that it would have cost us even more money to change systems.
So, Nikon, a shameful exercise that I hope will never be repeated by you or any other company. Oh, and once this camera has gotten too long in the tooth, and if we are in an OK financial situation by then, I won't ever be buying Nikon again.
redisburning
Well-known
Look I got a lot of sympathy for you because of the situation and Nikon's misbehavior, but believing anything Ken Rockwell says when his site has obviously erroneous information posted on it (including but not limited to reviews of products he has never used, climate change denialism and the misrepresentation of his opinion as fact) is not something you should blame on him.
Because he's just a liar with a blog, not a person who is qualified to judge the severity of a problem across a production line.
Again, on the whole, I feel for you. And obviously Nikon acted inappropriately with this camera. That's on them and I hope you son gets good use out of the D800.
Because he's just a liar with a blog, not a person who is qualified to judge the severity of a problem across a production line.
Again, on the whole, I feel for you. And obviously Nikon acted inappropriately with this camera. That's on them and I hope you son gets good use out of the D800.