Beemermark
Veteran
"An expert is someone who has made every mistake possible within a very narrow field of inquiry." - Niels Bohr
It doesnt matter if you sell overseas or a few blocks away. In case the buyer claims he has not received anything from you Paypal needs a tracking number as proof of shipment.
Lesson to learn: Never ship anything without tracking when it was paid through Paypal.
philosomatographer
Well-known
As somebody who lives in South Africa, seeing a message like the above saddens me. I can only strongly disagree:
- Items can get lost anywhere
- Via 'normal' mail, items can take much longer than 3-4 weeks to arrive. Start worrying after 6 weeks (surface mail)
- I have purchased, from forums such as these, and eBay, many many valuable items over the years, and have never lost a single one of them. And South Africa has to have one of the worst postal services! This includes items like: Olympus OM-3Ti, Expensive Zuiko lenses like 250mm f/2.0 (6kg, in metal case), 21/2.0, 90/2.0 Macro etc, Leica M3, Linhof Technika, Zeiss Luminar Macro lenses, Developing tanks, paper, film, you name it.
- I have purchased from: North and South America, Europe, Greenland, Japan, Australia, you name it.
- Have done the full spectrum, from unsigned, slow, surface mail, to UPS/DHL/etc (courier).
- I have never lost a single item. Not one. (lucky, I know).
I have been so lucy, that if I were to actualy lose an item, I would just tag it as "win some, lose some". More interesting things happen in life when you are prepared to take some chances.Especially bargains!
Paddy C
Unused film collector
As stated above, you need more than a tracking number or even delivery confirmation with Paypal. You need a signature.
Canada Post, to the best of my knowledge, cannot get a signature on something sent out of country. If I want to get that I have to use a courier which is why I went with UPS when I sold a more expensive kit two summers ago.
At any rate, I had no idea what the lens the OP sold was worth. If it is a $50 lens I have two conclusions:
1. Expensive shipping is, obviously, not worth while.
2. If the lens is lost who cares? Yes you are out money but that is the risk that comes with selling stuff online and shipping it places.
flyingpalm
Well-known
I shipped all over the world and buy stuff from EU etc.
Never had a problem although sometimes it took two months to get there, like Vietnam
Never had a problem although sometimes it took two months to get there, like Vietnam
International Priority Mail is very reliable. I have never had an item lost or damaged. I had one item damaged sent domestically via Priority Mail, looked like the package was dropped. The RF was knocked out of alignment. The item was insured, recipient did not post a claim.
Surface mail overseas. Half the items lost, others damaged.
Surface mail overseas. Half the items lost, others damaged.
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Ronny
Well-known
Never any problems with ebay and shipping from China, USA, Germany to Sweden.
Paul T.
Veteran
I've bought and sold on rff to and from the US, Canada, Japan, Germany, France, Poland, Czech Republic, Russia, Italy, Australia... everyone was happy to pay for Tracking and Insurance for anything over $50. It's part of the fun of rff, that stuff gets recycled over our global village.
Anyway, good luck, don't lose hope or faith.
Anyway, good luck, don't lose hope or faith.
jasonhupe
Established
I sold a contax G series flash to a guy years and years ago.
It was less than $100 so I just sent it priority USPS. I realized once he said it never came there was no way for me to even track it or tell. I decided after having to refund his money that I will never sell anything and ship it non UPS with insurance. The worst part was months later I seen him selling the very same item and could not help but think it was mine and he just lied because I had no way of knowing.
It was less than $100 so I just sent it priority USPS. I realized once he said it never came there was no way for me to even track it or tell. I decided after having to refund his money that I will never sell anything and ship it non UPS with insurance. The worst part was months later I seen him selling the very same item and could not help but think it was mine and he just lied because I had no way of knowing.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I just sent a Bronica lens I sold to an eBay buyer in Canada via Aust Post. Basic air mail was $27.00 with no insurance available to Canada for some weird reason (Germany is the same) ... if I wanted it trackable and insurable it jumped to $54.00 and that's before insurance which would have cost another $20.00!
I tend to take my chances with standard mail for cheaper items and so far I've been lucky ... the only thing that has never made it was an Electro I sold though here and I refunded the guy's money and chalked it up to bad luck ... like the Jupiter I guess.
Anything reallly valuable like my M8 when I sold it to Colin (avotius) I send it express trackable/insured and to hell with the cost. From memory that was $140.00 and it was there in three days.
The other thing that worries me is it's very easy with low dollar items that aren't covered for a dodgy buyer to say ... "it didn't get here I want my money back!"
I tend to take my chances with standard mail for cheaper items and so far I've been lucky ... the only thing that has never made it was an Electro I sold though here and I refunded the guy's money and chalked it up to bad luck ... like the Jupiter I guess.
Anything reallly valuable like my M8 when I sold it to Colin (avotius) I send it express trackable/insured and to hell with the cost. From memory that was $140.00 and it was there in three days.
The other thing that worries me is it's very easy with low dollar items that aren't covered for a dodgy buyer to say ... "it didn't get here I want my money back!"
MIkhail
-
The lens was $95, but it's not the point. Point is- I shared my experience and somebody will hopefully learn from it, as I did.
And, of course, you are right, all the tracking, insurance and delivery confirmation and all that stuff- it's all extra and the burden of proof is on seller. At least with USPS.
In the past I sent many things - a lot more expensive things - without insurance, and turns out I was lucky. It was to Russia, Ukraine, to Hong Kong, to Europe, to Australia, to all the places that people above listed for me here (don't know what that proves though).This time I received a lesson. I am just glad it's not the Speed Graphics I sent earlier, but simple J9
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wjlapier
Well-known
Yes you learned a lesson.
I did too. No more international sales of low cost items, unless buyer wants to pay for the more expensive trackable method--usually don't. Higher priced items will require USPS Priority International with full value declared and insured. I did recently make an exception, but that is rare. Simple.
I did too. No more international sales of low cost items, unless buyer wants to pay for the more expensive trackable method--usually don't. Higher priced items will require USPS Priority International with full value declared and insured. I did recently make an exception, but that is rare. Simple.
tlitody
Well-known
That last one is critical and should include Signed For. That way you can prove it was sent and delivered which means you don't lose out. And buyer pays for insurance, tracking and signed for costs or they don't get the item. That way everyone is covered. They can't claim or think you didn't send it and you know whether it was delivered and signed for.
Do that and you can send anywhere in the World safely (unless you get a chargeback on the credit card they paid with
)Jamie123
Veteran
As has already been mentioned, if the guy wants uninsured shipping it's at his risk. I can only give my word that I really sent the item and anything else is out of my reach. When I send an item uninsured at the buyers request there is no burden of proof on my side whatsoever.
I've had considerable delays on shippings to other (not so far) countries on numerous occasions and all I can do is tell the buyer to have patience and/or call the customs office as that's where most shipments get held up. Other than that there's not much I can or will do.
Is there any particular reason why you felt compelled to refund the money? And why the full amount? I think it would've just been fair if you two had at least split the cost.
I've had considerable delays on shippings to other (not so far) countries on numerous occasions and all I can do is tell the buyer to have patience and/or call the customs office as that's where most shipments get held up. Other than that there's not much I can or will do.
Is there any particular reason why you felt compelled to refund the money? And why the full amount? I think it would've just been fair if you two had at least split the cost.
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
Is this something the folks at PayPal agree with? Perhaps I am missing some fine print to the fine print, but it is my understanding by my reading of PayPals rules that it is always the seller's responsibility to prove an item arrived.
Further complicating Paypal transactions is the fact that many users pay by credit card through paypal. So even if paypal sides with you, there could still be a chargeback by the credit card vendor if they side with the client in a dispute.
Paul T.
Veteran
A good point, with an easy solution, though. For cheap items, which buyer asks to be shipped airmail without tracking, ask for PayPal personal payment. In which case, they take the risk. (I have done this once, when a buyer baulked... they ended up paying for insured shipping).
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
Here's another little lesson that I paid $250 to learn.
Sometimes at the post office, the helpful clerks will urge me not to get signature confirmation - since the recipient must sign for an insured item worth more than $200. Never follow that advice.
The problem is that the insurance signature is not viewable online. It is on the Post Office's intranet. So in the event of a dispute, the PayPal resolution department will not accept that as proof of delivery - because they cannot go online themselves and see the signature.
Sometimes at the post office, the helpful clerks will urge me not to get signature confirmation - since the recipient must sign for an insured item worth more than $200. Never follow that advice.
The problem is that the insurance signature is not viewable online. It is on the Post Office's intranet. So in the event of a dispute, the PayPal resolution department will not accept that as proof of delivery - because they cannot go online themselves and see the signature.
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
Indeed. I have offered that option to buyers who want me to ship things declared at lower than actual value, etc. If they are willing to accept that risk, that's fine with me. But in all my shipping, I've lost one lens and one camera. One to fraud and one to unknown reasons. So I do not ship without protecting myself as much as possible.
wjlapier
Well-known
Just got an email from someone in Hong Kong who still hasn't received their package from me. USPS Priority International insured. Last tracked leaving US from San Francisco Jan 7th. I shipped the package Jan 4th. It's now Jan 19th. Hopefully this resolves itself.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The US trackable system can be strange ... I had a camera sent to me after repair by Camtech with the tracking info emailed to me. It took a week and a half to leave the US according to the tracking details then about three days to get to me once it had actually gone into the system!