DavidH
Overweight and over here
Hello guys...I've been digesting the various threads on and off for the last few days and decided to put all my thoughts into a single message instead of a series of disconnected responses. And it's a case of hello and goodbye really - I'm away filming in South Africa and Switzerland for the next 5 weeks so wont be able to contribute much beyond the weekend...
Oh, and if you recognise some of your own comments and suggestions in here - that'll be because they are your comments and suggestions and I like em enough to second them. 🙂
Competitions:
I agree with those who have suggested competitions are THE best way to encourage more participation in the image side of photography - I cant think of a better way and make the case that this is where we should focus much of the activity of this group.
I'd suggest a main series that runs throughout the year with a new subject each month. Points are awarded and a league/leaderboard runs year long - ensuring results aren't skewed to a particular theme. This should be marketed as one of the raisons d'etra for RFF photography...if we're going to do this then let's get serious about it and somehow raise the money for a decent prize at the end. 🙂
We'd need a panel of judges and a set of rules for applying points. Criteria for judging should be published on the site so everyone knows how their submission will be judged.
Each month, the top three scoring photographers provide more detailed information on their images - why they chose that particular one, what was involved in the shoot, location specifics, technical information on camera, lens, film (if used) post processing details etc - anything to help others understand how the image was arrived at and potentially learn from the experience. Also, the judges should be required to explain why a shot scored the way it did - not an essay - but it will help future submissions.
Since this will be the flagship comp, it should be restricted to RF cameras only.
For those with more time to be active in photography we can run a series of more casual comps in parallel. Say weekly/bi weekly, winners decided by votes/points applied by the rest of us and then free to select the theme for the next mini comp (someone else's idea and i like it). It's just for fun as the saying goes...
Picture of the Week. I like this and think it should stay and be further encouraged. This way, anyone can shortlist their favorites and all images uploaded to the gallery that week - whether intended for the comps or not - can be recognised.
But, there needs to be some improvement to how we the users mark an image for our shortlists. I usually visit the gallery every day I'm in the office and have a quick browse thru making comments on those shots that catch my eye. Making it easier to flag an image for pow should be an aim of this group - if we do then more people will be happy to join in. See below for thoughts on mechanics.
Critique:
Views here are pretty polarised with some members complaining about generic and emotional commenting and finding that less than useful. I was also surprised to read some saying that because they dont get many comments they dont spend any time in the gallery - that sounds a tad self-fulfilling to me.
My own guesstimate is that most people posting to the gallery dont want indepth critiques, especially if they involve subjective, negative comments. And a lot of people won't know how to give a critique - the language and approach - and so will feel uncomfortable getting involved.
So a 2-tier system as used elsewhere should work fine - where the uploader can request a critique by setting a flag - or leave the flag unmarked and be happy with general comments. Critique guidelines could be published - from those used to judging comps etc.
Personally, I see no value in critiques unless specific to an application for professional membership/college course etc - where the critique is a practise run - and given by those who know how the thing will be judged. Photography is so subjective that the value of a disconnected point of view seems limited and even potentially damaging if given unasked.
When I worked for a scuba diving school, we gave positive reinforcement - 2 positives for every negative. It was a system that worked well...but then I was a trained professional divemaster and could validate what I was saying. Where's the reference point for general photography? The competitions will be judged on open and published criteria - but there will still be those left complaining that 'my image was better than that one so how did i score less...?' 😉
I like general commenting - it is interactive and positive and feels good and will allow everyone to be more involved in the RFF image side of things. Spending time and resources on providing for critiques is less important in my opinion and should come further down the list of priorities for the site.
Showcase:
So we have lots of talented people talking and taking photography. And it goes into the forums and becomes part of the general ether - as much of it should. 😉
But there is a huge amount of useful information there, some superb images, reviews and stories. Why not showcase some of it?
Articles, picture based stories, biographies of members, gear reviews (as in real world use by real people - i.e. us), the monthly photo competition winners, travel stories and information, day in the life stories, meet ups, RFF news, general camera news...and so on...in a PDF format to allow best picture quality. We have members all over the world, I'd be fascinated to read about your hometowns and locales...
Nothing new in this - other sites do it - and I think it works. No minimum number of pages, no editing of grammar and spelling...just a little time each month collating what's submitted into a pdf and uploading it. Sure there will need to be management - chasing people for contributions etc - but its not a major publishing concern.
Allow a mix of camera-agnostic articles and there'll be more material available - eg travel stories where not everything was shot on a rf.
Calendars/Books. Yup - support these in principle.
Mechanics:
The big, controversial stumbling block of a show-stopper.
So - is the gallery implementation flexible enough to allow for the picture-centred changes we are looking to make? Allowing easy use, commenting, flagging, tracking, submissions for comps, management of images etc...?
Will it allow a quick search for new images for critique, latest entries in a comp etc?
If not, should we accept a heavy compromise or look for a different solution? No point spending days talking options if we can't implement them. 😉
Flickr has been mentioned - I dont use it so can't comment - but if it does all that we need and can be integrated enough for RFF then I'm happy to change.
Best wishes
David
Oh, and if you recognise some of your own comments and suggestions in here - that'll be because they are your comments and suggestions and I like em enough to second them. 🙂
Competitions:
I agree with those who have suggested competitions are THE best way to encourage more participation in the image side of photography - I cant think of a better way and make the case that this is where we should focus much of the activity of this group.
I'd suggest a main series that runs throughout the year with a new subject each month. Points are awarded and a league/leaderboard runs year long - ensuring results aren't skewed to a particular theme. This should be marketed as one of the raisons d'etra for RFF photography...if we're going to do this then let's get serious about it and somehow raise the money for a decent prize at the end. 🙂
We'd need a panel of judges and a set of rules for applying points. Criteria for judging should be published on the site so everyone knows how their submission will be judged.
Each month, the top three scoring photographers provide more detailed information on their images - why they chose that particular one, what was involved in the shoot, location specifics, technical information on camera, lens, film (if used) post processing details etc - anything to help others understand how the image was arrived at and potentially learn from the experience. Also, the judges should be required to explain why a shot scored the way it did - not an essay - but it will help future submissions.
Since this will be the flagship comp, it should be restricted to RF cameras only.
For those with more time to be active in photography we can run a series of more casual comps in parallel. Say weekly/bi weekly, winners decided by votes/points applied by the rest of us and then free to select the theme for the next mini comp (someone else's idea and i like it). It's just for fun as the saying goes...
Picture of the Week. I like this and think it should stay and be further encouraged. This way, anyone can shortlist their favorites and all images uploaded to the gallery that week - whether intended for the comps or not - can be recognised.
But, there needs to be some improvement to how we the users mark an image for our shortlists. I usually visit the gallery every day I'm in the office and have a quick browse thru making comments on those shots that catch my eye. Making it easier to flag an image for pow should be an aim of this group - if we do then more people will be happy to join in. See below for thoughts on mechanics.
Critique:
Views here are pretty polarised with some members complaining about generic and emotional commenting and finding that less than useful. I was also surprised to read some saying that because they dont get many comments they dont spend any time in the gallery - that sounds a tad self-fulfilling to me.
My own guesstimate is that most people posting to the gallery dont want indepth critiques, especially if they involve subjective, negative comments. And a lot of people won't know how to give a critique - the language and approach - and so will feel uncomfortable getting involved.
So a 2-tier system as used elsewhere should work fine - where the uploader can request a critique by setting a flag - or leave the flag unmarked and be happy with general comments. Critique guidelines could be published - from those used to judging comps etc.
Personally, I see no value in critiques unless specific to an application for professional membership/college course etc - where the critique is a practise run - and given by those who know how the thing will be judged. Photography is so subjective that the value of a disconnected point of view seems limited and even potentially damaging if given unasked.
When I worked for a scuba diving school, we gave positive reinforcement - 2 positives for every negative. It was a system that worked well...but then I was a trained professional divemaster and could validate what I was saying. Where's the reference point for general photography? The competitions will be judged on open and published criteria - but there will still be those left complaining that 'my image was better than that one so how did i score less...?' 😉
I like general commenting - it is interactive and positive and feels good and will allow everyone to be more involved in the RFF image side of things. Spending time and resources on providing for critiques is less important in my opinion and should come further down the list of priorities for the site.
Showcase:
So we have lots of talented people talking and taking photography. And it goes into the forums and becomes part of the general ether - as much of it should. 😉
But there is a huge amount of useful information there, some superb images, reviews and stories. Why not showcase some of it?
Articles, picture based stories, biographies of members, gear reviews (as in real world use by real people - i.e. us), the monthly photo competition winners, travel stories and information, day in the life stories, meet ups, RFF news, general camera news...and so on...in a PDF format to allow best picture quality. We have members all over the world, I'd be fascinated to read about your hometowns and locales...
Nothing new in this - other sites do it - and I think it works. No minimum number of pages, no editing of grammar and spelling...just a little time each month collating what's submitted into a pdf and uploading it. Sure there will need to be management - chasing people for contributions etc - but its not a major publishing concern.
Allow a mix of camera-agnostic articles and there'll be more material available - eg travel stories where not everything was shot on a rf.
Calendars/Books. Yup - support these in principle.
Mechanics:
The big, controversial stumbling block of a show-stopper.
So - is the gallery implementation flexible enough to allow for the picture-centred changes we are looking to make? Allowing easy use, commenting, flagging, tracking, submissions for comps, management of images etc...?
Will it allow a quick search for new images for critique, latest entries in a comp etc?
If not, should we accept a heavy compromise or look for a different solution? No point spending days talking options if we can't implement them. 😉
Flickr has been mentioned - I dont use it so can't comment - but if it does all that we need and can be integrated enough for RFF then I'm happy to change.
Best wishes
David
