My Leica doesn't like my Paterson reels

[stampfiddler]

For the entirety of my 50+ photographic years, I've used Paterson developing tanks. Never a problem with loading 35mm or 120 film. Lately, I acquired a Leica IIIg and have discovered that, essentially, I can't load a 36 exposure roll of film onto the Paterson reel. As the film starts to travel into the reel, it gets harder and harder to load and then stops at about the half-roll point. I haven't had too many problems with 24 exposure rolls.

My theory is that, since the Leica winds film opposite to every other 35mm camera I've ever used, the film starts to form a reverse curve. The Leica take-up spool collects the film emulsion-out, not emulsion-in like Japanese 35mm cameras. The longer the film sits in the camera, the longer it has to reverse its curve away from its natural shape in the cassette.

Film that has come out of a Japanese camera retains its natural cassette curve which also matches the developing reel curve. The Leica film starts to fight its way around the track because it's now curving the wrong way. I'm experimenting with loading the film in reverse, i.e. starting at the take-up spool end instead of the leader end. This seems to work better, but it's hard to unlearn all those years of process/practice.

I'm curious as to whether others have experienced this problem and how you solved it if you did. (Please don't suggest Nikor tanks.... another new trick I won't be able to learn.)

 

[Glenn2]

Yes, I’ve had this exact problem with Paterson tanks. My solution is to let the film sit for a few days in the cassette after rewinding before trying to load it in the spiral. This seems to reduce reverse curl.

 

[Freakscene]

Yes, I’ve had this exact problem with Paterson tanks. My solution is to let the film sit for a few days in the cassette after rewinding before trying to load it in the spiral. This seems to reduce reverse curl.

Agree. And clean the reels - dishwasher works, otherwise toothbrush and strong detergent and lots of rinsing. Also make sure that the reels are super dry (use a hair dryer if it is humid). Or buy some Hewes reels.

 

[Pioneer]

Hmm. I don't recall having any problems loading Jobo reels.

 

[Freakscene]

Hmm. I don't recall having any problems loading Jobo reels.

Paterson reels have tighter tracks than Jobo ones.

 

[Pioneer]

Paterson reels have tighter tracks than Jobo ones.

Ahhh. That is interesting. Thanks, I did not know that.

 

[38Deardorff]

No such problems with Nikor, Kinderman and Hewes reels/

 

[stampfiddler]

Yes, I’ve had this exact problem with Paterson tanks. My solution is to let the film sit for a few days in the cassette after rewinding before trying to load it in the spiral. This seems to reduce reverse curl.

Great idea. I've been a little too quick to go from camera to tank.

 

[Coldkennels]

99% of all the rolls I shoot go through a screwmount Leica or a few different "clones" - Leotaxes, early Canons, a couple of early Zorkis, etc. - and 100% of my films are developed using Paterson reels, sometimes within five to ten minutes of rewinding the film. No issues.

I'm inclined to say that @Freakscene is right: this is probably a sign that you need to thoroughly clean your reels. Simple as that.

Another little trick that can help, though: nap the corners of the film before you load it. All you need to do is take off a little triangle of film on each corner after cutting off the leader so that there's a chamfered edge - literally just 3mm along the hypotenuse will do it, you don't need to be too exact - in the Paterson's track will help reduce any jamming. I never bother doing this with medium format films and I definitely noticed the issue you're describing when shooting 220 in a TLR, so I think it's just a smart thing to do with any decent length of film in a Paterson reel, regardless of which way it's been wound or stored.

 

[ChrisPlatt]

About a decade ago I switched from my Paterson tanks to A-P plastic tanks with A-P auto-load reels.
I'm not sure if this will help your problem but afterwards I no longer experienced jams loading 35mm.

Freakscene's advice regarding the need for reels to be clean and scrupulously dry cannot be overstated.

Chris

 

[stampfiddler]

Thanks for all the ideas and replies. My reels are clean and well-rinsed after each session, and I learned the must-be-dry lesson a long time ago. Napping the corners and letting the film rest in the can for a while before processing sound like good things to try next.

 

[BernardL]

I have experienced a similar problem I think it comes from the first inch of the film, the curvature keeping the tip at an angle against the side wall of the Paterson groove, with increased friction. I suggest that you try the following, doable in daylight with just the last 1-2 inches of film sticking out from the cartridge. Slide it against an edge to cancel or even slightly invert the reverse curvature. Then try spooling.
Cutting the corners at a (30°-45°) angle also helps address another (potential) issue: ensure the film edge passes smoothly over each radial "spoke" of the spiral.

 

[Valkir1987]

Just clean the reels with a soft toothbrush with water and some baking soda. Dishwashing detergents contain limolene, which damages the softeners in the plastic. (Just like alcohol or isopropyl)

I rarely have problems with paterson spools, but use them mostly with C-41. Some blame wetting agent residues for this problem too.

 

[Jonathan R]

Great idea. I've been a little too quick to go from camera to tank.

Exactly this. Overnight is generally enough.

 

[Godfrey]

For the entirety of my 50+ photographic years, I've used Paterson developing tanks. Never a problem with loading 35mm or 120 film. Lately, I acquired a Leica IIIg and have discovered that, essentially, I can't load a 36 exposure roll of film onto the Paterson reel. As the film starts to travel into the reel, it gets harder and harder to load and then stops at about the half-roll point. I haven't had too many problems with 24 exposure rolls.

My theory is that, since the Leica winds film opposite to every other 35mm camera I've ever used, the film starts to form a reverse curve. The Leica take-up spool collects the film emulsion-out, not emulsion-in like Japanese 35mm cameras. The longer the film sits in the camera, the longer it has to reverse its curve away from its natural shape in the cassette.

Film that has come out of a Japanese camera retains its natural cassette curve which also matches the developing reel curve. The Leica film starts to fight its way around the track because it's now curving the wrong way. I'm experimenting with loading the film in reverse, i.e. starting at the take-up spool end instead of the leader end. This seems to work better, but it's hard to unlearn all those years of process/practice.

I'm curious as to whether others have experienced this problem and how you solved it if you did. (Please don't suggest Nikor tanks.... another new trick I won't be able to learn.)

My Nikon F film transport works the film in exactly the same way as my Leica Ms. As does my Rollei 35S, Minox 35GT-E, Voigtländer Vito II, Voigtländer Vitessa, etc etc ... and many other cameras. It is done this way to promote film flatness at the exposure gate, and has virtually no influence on the film after it has been rewound into the film cassette. Cameras that do not reverse curl the film in this manner typically suffer from looser film plane flatness tolerances, and are cheaper to manufacture.

I've used lots of different reels over the years. When film is sticking in the film reels, it has always been a matter of residual chemistry sticking to the developing tank reel and causing the film to not move smoothly. When this has happened, a good soaping, soaking in warm soapy water, and careful brush out with a soft toothbrush, and then air drying with warm air, has always solved the problem.

G

 

[Ororaro]

This is a classic example of not knowing what you’re missing.

Steel reels are soooo easy to load they practically load themselves! The quality steel reels, of course.

You also save on chemistry requiring only 240ml per reel.

 

[Hans Berkhout]

Problem solved for me, after soaking in vinegar overnight and rinsing in destilled water, then drying.

 

[coogee]

You can try loading the film upside down as well, so that curly first section is working with you rather than against.
I do wish I'd started life on the metal reels, too late now, Paterson for life.