My Leica II won't take Filca's

[johannielscom]

Went to the Fotografica in Houten, NL today. Got myself five FILCA's and one IXMOO. And one reloadable pre-FILCA cassette, that I will show later 😉

Was looking forward to using the FILCA's in the Leica II but it does not have a bottom lock that can slide a FILCA open!

Is my Leica II an odd one, or do the FILCA's not fit in any Leica II?

Pls advise me! Love those FILCA's and do not want to let them go again...!

 

[colyn]

I've never seen a screw Leica that won't take the FILCA cassette.

Maybe a repairman removed the lock.

The original Leica I had to use the FILCA's since Kodak had not invented the pre-loaded 135 cassettes.. They came out a few years later...

 

[johannielscom]

Thanks PAN F, my problem is that the bottom lock latch is totally flat and has no rims that will catch the FILCA knob when rotated either way! I'll post a shot tomorrow.

Must have been a repairman fix to make sure a loose bottom plate would once again close tightly...

Now, where to find a bottom lock for a 1932 Leica II?

 

[HuubL]

Thanks PAN F, my problem is that the bottom lock latch is totally flat and has no rims that will catch the FILCA knob when rotated either way! I'll post a shot tomorrow.

Must have been a repairman fix to make sure a loose bottom plate would once again close tightly...

Now, where to find a bottom lock for a 1932 Leica II?

Sorry to hear about the lock Johan. Just to let you know, my II is still for sale and it opens FILCAs excellently 😉

 

[Dralowid]

Hi Johan,

That flat bottom catch might have started life in a Fed or somesuch. If the catch on the outside is a tiny bit too shiny that might suggest that it too came from a Fed.

..or has it simply been flattened?

Michael

 

[john neal]

Johan,

Just checked my two bodies - the 82*** one has the Filca opening type of catch, but the 79*** one has a completely flat plate with an annular slot. This is a bit odd, as the plate has the little "pusher" arm that locates the cassette into the body, and is marked "auf" and "zu" as you would expect.

I do wonder if the baseplate on the 79 series body comes from a much earlier body, but have no way of proving that, and would expect it to cater for the FILCA anyway.

Does anyone know when the FILCA was introduced?

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

The FILCA was introduced in 1931, I think, but the FILCA is a cassette 1B isn't it? So the earlier one was what?

As for the baseplate, I've just looked in all mine up to the M2 and they had a moulded piece but the FED's and Zorkis have a flat metal plate with the tab punched out and bent up leaving a slot.

The earliest Leica instruction I have is "First Principles for Leica Users" but thatshows the cassette 1B (with the straight spring btw).

Sorry I can't help more. Malcolm Taylor in the UK is probably the best source of spare parts for elderly Leicas and their owners.

Regards, David

 

[Penny Lane]

I've seen it. It's definitely not a FED/Zorki lock plate - I think one of those wouldn't even fit as the little stop seems to be in the wrong place for one of those. It is however just like the lock John describes, including the pin to unlock a FILCA. That's good: it means there's a parallel.

Now to find out what it means 😀

Derk

 

[johannielscom]

Johan,

Just checked my two bodies - the 82*** one has the Filca opening type of catch, but the 79*** one has a completely flat plate with an annular slot. This is a bit odd, as the plate has the little "pusher" arm that locates the cassette into the body, and is marked "auf" and "zu" as you would expect.

I do wonder if the baseplate on the 79 series body comes from a much earlier body, but have no way of proving that, and would expect it to cater for the FILCA anyway.

Does anyone know when the FILCA was introduced?

John,

mine is a 71*** serial and has the same lock, totally flat. Also has the little upright 'blade' that pushes back the FILCA spring. It's a 1932 camera. Guess the FILCAs were introduced at a later moment and maybe they were already preparing bottom plates for them, but used up the older type plate locks?😕


At the Fotografica Fair last weekend, I found a pre-FILCA cassette for Leica, marked 'Agfa-Leica film'. It made of metal, has a felt-baffled slot and a bottom plate that pops out. I'll show pictures tomorrow.

My guess is that these cassettes were what one loaded into a Leica before the FILCAs were introduced.

I bought a box of Agfa Isopan film (expired january 1946) that seems to match the cassette. It is film on a spool only, wrapped in thick paper, boxed up. It should be loaded into the cassette in the dark.

Just my luck, bought four really nice FILCAs with aluminium canisters and all, only to find out my Leica II cannot handle them... 😱

 

[Livesteamer]

Wasn't there a cassette before the filca's that was similar but for the Leica 1a? My Leica 1a #17940 will not take a filca into the camera, it does not go in all the way. Could your camera have been a conversion from a 1a? Joe

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Page 7, at the bottom, of "Directions" Prt 1 says:-

"To enable Leica cartridges to be used also in earlier model of the camera the lock V1 must have this part fitted... "

I've got to see the hospital tomorrow morning but should be able to scan or photograph it later on. It might help, who knows?

A photo of the Agfa cassette's inner spool would be appreciated. I've a lot of odds and ends like this but am never sure about the spools which were often discarded as the refills came on a wooden cylinder and so on, ie film and spool in the refill can.

Regards, David

 

[johannielscom]

Sorry to hear about the lock Johan. Just to let you know, my II is still for sale and it opens FILCAs excellently 😉

Huub,

what are the first two digits of the serial no on your camera? Is it earlier or later than 71***, or 79***?

IIRC yours is an 82*** camera as well?

If so, that might mean that the change occured between 79*** (Johns camera) and 82*** (Johns and yours)

 

[johannielscom]

David,

A scan would be most appreciated, and could you tell me details on that book too?


I'll make sure to photograph the spool and cassette in detail and post shots here!

Good luck with your hospital visit, btw.

 

[john neal]

John,

mine is a 71*** serial and has the same lock, totally flat. Also has the little upright 'blade' that pushes back the FILCA spring. It's a 1932 camera. Guess the FILCAs were introduced at a later moment and maybe they were already preparing bottom plates for them, but used up the older type plate locks?😕


At the Fotografica Fair last weekend, I found a pre-FILCA cassette for Leica, marked 'Agfa-Leica film'. It made of metal, has a felt-baffled slot and a bottom plate that pops out. I'll show pictures tomorrow.

My guess is that these cassettes were what one loaded into a Leica before the FILCAs were introduced.

I bought a box of Agfa Isopan film (expired january 1946) that seems to match the cassette. It is film on a spool only, wrapped in thick paper, boxed up. It should be loaded into the cassette in the dark.

Just my luck, bought four really nice FILCAs with aluminium canisters and all, only to find out my Leica II cannot handle them... 😱

Johan,

With a serial like that, yours must be one of the earliest IIs made - I know that Leitz used to mix up batches of parts for similar cameras, and used up what was available - witness a lovely black II that I once had, made in 1933 when they were just introducing the III - it was factory fitted with a III body shell that had the lug holes filled with mushroom headed screws.

I'm guessing that yours must have the small locating pip for the bottom plate? Both of mine do - this is common to all bodies up to 1932, and would lead to the possibility that bottom plates were pre-assembled separately to the rest of the camera - all it would take then is either some innattention on final assembly, or a shortage of the correct bottom plate and..... well we know the rest.

On the film front - yes, the Agfa film was wrapped in light-proof paper inside the box, and all you did was to load the cassette in the dark and you were ready to put it in the camera and shoot. What ISO is it - 8? and will you shoot any (is that heresy)?


Derk - mine is totally flat like Johan's - no pins or other protrusions that could operate the FILCA.

 

[johannielscom]

John,

you are correct! I had noticed that the camera was a 1932 camera by reading the list of serial numbers and production dates on cameraquest, but had not noticed that there were no Leica II entries before the batch that my camera comes from! Leica II production started at 71200, so that makes mine a camera from the first 1,000 Leica II's!

Mine does indeed have the small locating pip on the side as well.

Hm, seems I'm in trouble when it gets to sorting this issue, now it turns out I need a Leica I or early II black paint bottom plate with the correct lock to operate my FILCAs... 😱 Guess these FILCAs might need to go back on sale... 😱

 

[Penny Lane]

Ah, I somehow understood that the little tab that pushes the FILCA spring out to unlock the cartridge was there, as on Johan's example. The tab isn't there as well?

The lock plate itself, as I've seen it, is indeed flat. That would match your earlier description perfectly 🙂

Edit to add: Johan, I can handle two more FILCA's, my FED-1 takes them perfectly now 😀

Derk

 

[haempe]

At the Fotografica Fair last weekend, I found a pre-FILCA cassette for Leica, marked 'Agfa-Leica film'. It made of metal, has a felt-baffled slot and a bottom plate that pops out. I'll show pictures tomorrow.

My guess is that these cassettes were what one loaded into a Leica before the FILCAs were introduced.

I bought a box of Agfa Isopan film (expired january 1946) that seems to match the cassette. It is film on a spool only, wrapped in thick paper, boxed up. It should be loaded into the cassette in the dark.

Leica-Kassette Modell A (later the improoved Model B or FILCA) was avalaible from the beginning
The Leitz-AGFA Kassette (Kassette Model D or KASAM) was introduced in 1931 to use with the AGFA Tageslichtfüllung (the paper wrapped spool you describe).
Model A +B need the opening mechanism in the bottom plate.
Model D and factory assembled film cartridges not.

 

[HuubL]

Huub,

what are the first two digits of the serial no on your camera? Is it earlier or later than 71***, or 79***?

IIRC yours is an 82*** camera as well?

If so, that might mean that the change occured between 79*** (Johns camera) and 82*** (Johns and yours)

I have two 1932 IIs, one is 85nnn, the other 88nnn. Both have the FILCA opening bottom plate.

I also have a 1930 IA 42nnn that also has a FILCA opening bottom plate. It looks like this is the original bottom plate for this IA, same paint gloss, same brassing, perfect fit. All bottom plates have the thin pip!

 

[john neal]

Derk,

Sorry - yes it has the little arm to push the spring, but a completely flat locking plate.

HuubL,

Thanks - yes, all production up to 1932 has the small pip. I forget the exact serial # when that changed, but it makes the early bottom plates more difficult to replace should that be needed. The locking plate on my 79*** body looks to be original - the paint across the baseplate and the locking parts is continuous in colour, finish and wear, so i'm assuming original. Incidentally, I looked at a 89*** series body in a dealer last week - that definitely had the filca style locking plate.

I may have a chat with a couple of people to see if the have any of the filca style lock plates in stock.

Johan,

If I can find a couple of plates, are you interested in one?

 

[Dralowid]

A entirely unscientific survey of the cupboard reveals:

Cameras in the range 10xxx, 20xxx, 30xxx, onward to 150xxx seem to have the release plate which is of the 'folded metal' type.

The plate then changes to the 'pressed metal' type which resembles a circle with a slot. There are one or two further types but they are not relevant here.

The conversions I have seem to have their plates modernised as part of the service....

Pre-war Feds (8xxx - 90xxx) have a flat plate with single bent prong folded out of it. Don't know what a Fed cassette looks like.... (I'd forgotten how nice the earliest Fed is)

Yes I think the small pip survives into early IIs (though I haven't any left to confirm), and presumably changes on Is about the same time.

To go off on a tangent...any film loading instruction plate?

And yes, before I upset anyone, I could be wrong...


Michael