Leica LTM My Leica IIIf sounds too loud

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
.....so get your Zorki (the C is a sure candidate for that) and release the shutter then turn to the IIIF and all gets well in relation....of course my 35RC....
 
raid said:
The shutter curtain was torn, and Eddy just fixed the camera. In comparison, my Canon IVsb sounds much quieter
Click to expand...

You should contact Eddy and find out how many turns he typically
puts on the cannisters. If he's setting Leica shutters up the way
he might a Russian camera, there's your problem, unless your
shutter brake is gone.
 
It's a wonderfully overengineered part that slows the 1st
curtain dramatically; lever actuated from the main shutter shaft.
It's very effective. If you want to hear loud, disconnect it. You'd
reach for a Zorki quickly.

Most of the time, excessive noise from a Leica C or F is due
to an overtensed 2nd curtain. The shutter brakes are fairly
durable.
 
raid said:
Whats a shutter brake?
Click to expand...

The Leica IIIf shutter brake:

370399469.jpg

Part "A" is a disk connected to the first (opening) shutter blind. "A1" is the hooked part whose position corresponds to a relative position of the first blind lath as it traverses across the film gate. At the end of its travel, "A1" stops somewhere too.

Part "B" is the brake. It is an adjustable eccentric screw whose oblique position is made to cushion (or stop) the crashing action of the first shutter blind as it reaches the end of its travel. Its ideal position is where it would stop "A1", just as the first curtain lath clears the film gate. The actual position or orientation of the eccentric oblique varies. It is often adjusted when the curtains are changed or adjusted or even retensioned.

The brake doesn't really slow down the shutter blind's travel. If it did, it would affect the exposure. It stops the first blind's lath from crashing into the roller end of the crate and produce a lot of noise, or worse, vibrations.

A well dampened stop for the first curtain will mean a less noisy shutter. The second shutter doesn't really need more cushioning since it tends to be quieter when it reaches its end. The opening shutter has a tension about 4X more than the closing shutter.

A badly adjusted or missing brake can cause vibrations in the shutter crate. When the first curtain 'crashes' it can cause the film gate to move and blur the image. This defect manifests itself in photos where about half or 1/4 of the frame (the part closer to the roller side) shows a marked blur in the details, missing from the other parts of the frame which were exposed first, and covered, by the time the first blind 'crashes' into the rollers.

BTW, I have 3 IIIf, and all fire with varying degrees of noise. Same could be said of my 3 IIIcs. The III Leica are the noisiest of the lot.
 
Last edited:
For those who want to hear an example of a really loud focal-plane shutter, find a Speed Graphic, Graflex single-lens-relflex press camera, or even a "National Graflex" (6x7 Graflex SLR from the 1930's-'40s).

(Especially if said camera has not had a CLA for a while - those can sound downright terrifying!)

Try those out... makes the Leica seem like Marcel Marceau by comparison. 😉

Luddite Frank 🙂
 
I tend to think we make too much out of shutter clacks. The camera is right at our ears when we press the shutter! But I remember one time in a camera store the dealer pulled out a sm Leica & fired the shutter, he said "I love that sound" when I heard it I thought to myself, thats no quiter than my Zorki! & thought it ironic his saying that compared to everything I read around here.
 
ZorkiKat said:
The Leica IIIf shutter brake:


Part "B" is the brake.

A well dampened stop for the first curtain will mean a less noisy shutter. The second shutter doesn't really need more cushioning since it tends to be quieter when it reaches its end. The opening shutter has a tension about 4X more than the closing shutter.
Click to expand...

Nice presentation, Zorkicat. A couple of things though....
i) Part B is not the shutter brake, technically. The brake
assembly cannot be seen from the image you provide.
ii) The 4:1 tension ratio does not apply in general. In fact,
it's reckless to assume that if I put 3 turns on the second
curtain, it follows that 12 turns should be applied to the first
curtain. This could damage curtain springs and wear out
the brake assembly prematurely.

Regards,
Bob
 
gb hill said:
I tend to think we make too much out of shutter clacks. The camera is right at our ears when we press the shutter! But I remember one time in a camera store the dealer pulled out a sm Leica & fired the shutter, he said "I love that sound" when I heard it I thought to myself, thats no quiter than my Zorki! & thought it ironic his saying that compared to everything I read around here.
Click to expand...


My first introduction to a "real camera" ( and focal-plane shutter) was my Dad's Nikon S, when I was about 5 years old.

So I grew-up hearing that "shoop!" of the shutter curtains.

Didn't know that cameras should sound otherwise.

Then I got an Argus C-3, with the leaf-type shutter, and that kind of went "ping"...

Then Mom got a Canon AE-1 Program, and I started hearing the clatter of the SLR mirror...

Most mechanical devices have a characteristic sound, though there are variations among specific examples....

I think one of the reasons the shutter in the Contax II / III cameras and the a-variants is so quiet is that the vertical-travelling shutter has to move a shorter distance [across the film gate ] and therefore, does not have to travel as fast as the curtains in a Leica/Nikon/Canon RF.


LF
 
The noise that my Nikon FG's mirror and shutter mechanism makes is quite comical. It sounds something like, "clat-chat-sproing!" with that vibrating spring sound at the end. I've got to mention the sound of the Fuji 67 and Fujica GS645W as well: "CLACK!"
 
Bob Corwin said:
Nice presentation, Zorkicat. A couple of things though....

ii) The 4:1 tension ratio does not apply in general. In fact,
it's reckless to assume that if I put 3 turns on the second
curtain, it follows that 12 turns should be applied to the first
curtain. This could damage curtain springs and wear out
the brake assembly prematurely.

Regards,
Bob
Click to expand...


Thanks Bob for pointing the missing detail here. I should have added that the tension of the closing curtain is about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 turns on its roller. 4 times of that is maybe 6 to 7 turns for the closing curtain's roller. There would be no risk of over tensioning with less than 8 full turns. In fact the 1:4 ratio seems to apply to other Leica style shutters as well- the Zorki and FED shutters without brakes also are tensed at a 1:4 ratio.

But then again, anyone tensioning the rollers should be aware of these factors. Without them, the basic rule of thumb applies as a starting point- tension the closing curtain just enough to make it close. That is usually less than 2 full turns. It would be more reckless to start adjusting things without knowing how to. Even without being aware of these things, one indicator of an overtensed 2nd curtain is that the first curtain will tend to catch and stop or hang midway at high speeds.
 
Last edited:
most cameras sound quiet to me, i mostly use a Hasselblad so am used to the KA-CHUNK! vaccuum sound of the shutter alerting anybody in a 100m distance of my presence 😀

then again, the Nikon D3 i used to own was surprisingly loud. so the IIIc's little shutter Tlak's are quiet as a mouse to me!
 
Shutter noise level of IIIc vs other rangefinders

Shutter noise level of IIIc vs other rangefinders

Resurrecting this thread because of a recently CLAd IIIc that now seems to have a noisier shutter -- noisier than before the curtains 'went'.

I recorded it at 1/100 together with a FED 3, Contax II, Zorki 6 and Contax RTS II (all at 1/125). The quietest, by far, was the Contax II. Then the Zorki and then the Leica, FED and Contax RTS II all at more or less at the same level.

Raid had asked if the type of shutter curtains used may have an impact on how noisy they were but I didn't see an answer. I'm just curious as to whether the material does have an effect or if I should go back to the repairer or simply ignore it. Other than the sound level it was a a worthwhile CLA. The camera came back clean with bright view and range finders and is a pleasure to use. Perhaps I'm just being too picky -- but I would like to know about the curtain material.
 
With all this talk about sounds I just have to mention this. I used to work in an office with the worlds most passionate coffee pot. It would boil and gurgle and steam like any normal coffee pot until it was about half way through the process. Then it would pause and produce five or six of the most passionate sighs ever heard from any machine (or human for that matter). After that, it would return to its normal coffee making as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened.
 
I have found that generally cameras are quieter after they've been dormant for a long time - I attribute this to them running slower than they should be. Once they've been exercised or cleaned up inside they tend to sound louder because the mech is no longer "lazy".
 
I don't know about that. My M-A is very quiet. My M3 is equally as quiet. All of my Barnacks (and I have several) are a bit noisier, but by no means are they noisy in comparison to an SLR. The quietest is my Leica Standard which still has the original curtains.

But my little Agfa Ambi-Silette is far quieter. None of my Leicas can compete. Takes darned nice photos as well.

So if you really want quiet, you are using the wrong camera. 🙂
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom