My 'new' R3A & J-3 ... issues !

[Matus]

Hi,

I have just received a new-to-me gray R3A. Looks great with only very minor signs of use. However, it has some (unfortunately common) isseus:

- The vertical alignment is off a bit

- The infinity focus with the Jupiter 3 (50/1.5) is off - namely the the camera seems to focus past the infinity. I will try to check the close focus too.

- The film lever - without film in a camera - if I make an advance - the film lever will not return to its original position, but will stay ~ 30 degrees off the camera. I can push it back with a finger - this is very smooth but with some resistance - is this normal? I guess it could speed up the shooting as you can keep the thumb between the lever and camera body ... so - is this an issue?

My questions:

1) The vertical alignment is lens independent and should be rather easy to correct, right? I found a link to a short help in one of the previous posts:

2) The infinity focus problem - can be lens dependent and as the Jupiter 3 is known to need additional shimming adjustment I probably should not use it as a correct measure of infinity (or close) focus adjustment ... correct or not ?

3) Now - I do not have any other lenses for this camera yet - should I first get a lens that I trust (like Heliar 75/2.5 or Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8) that has a correct infinity/close focus to judge on the rangefinder calibration or can this be done in a lens-independent way?

4) What about the film lever

Last point - I payed rather lot of money for this camera - as the grey ones do not come up that often - and the seller even has 6 month warranty, so I am bit unsure how to proceed ... 😕

 

[usagisakana]

- The film lever - without film in a camera - if I make an advance - the film lever will not return to its original position, but will stay ~ 30 degrees off the camera. I can push it back with a finger - this is very smooth but with some resistance - is this normal? I guess it could speed up the shooting as you can keep the thumb between the lever and camera body ... so - is this an issue?

Hey, can't help you with the rest, but this is normal for all the rangefinders i've ever had or used, it is so you can hold your thumb between and/or wind on again quickly without having to fiddle with the lever.

 

[ruby.monkey]

1) correct.
2) is lens dependent. Russian lenses can be a little hit or miss, so testing with a known good lens is a must.
3) see 2).
4) is normal, and is common on manual-lever-wind cameras of all types.

 

[ljsegil]

Focus with longer lenses on the R3x is a little difficult because of the short baseline of the rangefinder. I had better luck with shorter lenses to get the hang of the camera (and it is worth while to get the hang, she's a good little camera) and then challenged the rangefinder (I mean me and my technique, really) more after a bit of practice.
LJS

 

[Spyderman]

What ruby.monkey said.

To ljsegil: this has nothing to do with baselength. It's a mechanical question of whether the lens moves the RF arm the correct amount when mounted and focussed at infinity.

BTW: this could as well be a problem of the adapter. Be sure to use either CV or Leica adapters, not some non-name ones that you can order cheaply from china.

 

[Matus]

Thanks, now I have an idea of the status. True is - I do use a "no-name" adapter. My understanding is that the main important point is that the thickness of the flange is 1 mm. But I have also heard that a different thickness may be needed with Jupiter lenses ... hmm

I think I have now a good reason to buy one more lens (M - mount, to take the adapter of the problem) before I can say more.

So - would a longer focal length be better to estimate whether the infinity focus is OK or is does not matter. I remember reading that it is the length of focus throw that is important and this is usually longer with longer lenses - is this correct?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I've had to set helicals in J-3's to have proper infinity focus. Some are off. Then, the lens needs to be shimmed. On a couple of J-3's, i had to polish down the focus mount so the Helical could be screwed in far enough to reach infinity. On my best J-3 from 1953, i repositioned the helical back into the mount and discovered an original set of taps for the correct position. Someone had moved it for a different camera.

 

[payasam]

This discussion has not even considered the possibility that all else is good but the R/F is off.

 

[Matus]

Yes, while the Jupiter lenses are know to have this focusing issues, without another lens I will not be able to figure out whether it is the lens or the camera that makes problems.

I am now curios whether a longer focal length lens (Tele Elmarit 90/2.8) or a shorter length lens (40/1.4, or even 28/3.5) would do the job too ... ?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Yes, try to test a couple of M mount CV and Leica lenses before deciding...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[ruby.monkey]

This discussion has not even considered the possibility that all else is good but the R/F is off.

The opening post considers that very possibility, which is why Matus was asking about suitable lenses to test RF calibration.

Matus - if nothing else, it's a great excuse to get a 90mm Elmarit. You won't regret having it. 🙂

 

[Matus]

Only a small update - I have just tried to check the close focus with the Jupiter 3 and it seems to be fine: that means is I focus on a subject that is 1m away the lens will also indicate 1m distance. I guess I have to expose some film and wee shat comes out of it ...

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The throw of the J-3 from 3ft to infinity is 0.1mm longer than a Leica mount lens. So if they agree at 3ft, the RF of the Bessa will go past infinity.

The RF and distance scale can agree, and the actual focus can be off.

 

[Matus]

I have just returned from Amsterdam. I have exposed 2 films and will be more clever once I have some results in hand. But I will definitely check out the thread concerning the Jupiter-3 lenses and their adjustments.

 

[Ezzie]

What ruby.monkey said.

.....

BTW: this could as well be a problem of the adapter. Be sure to use either CV or Leica adapters, not some non-name ones that you can order cheaply from china.

I seem to remember CV supplies different adapters for different focal lengths. One size does not fit all.

 

[Philipp]

Sorry Ezzie, but you did get something wrong. One adapter fits all (focal lengths). The "coding" of the focal length by the adapter/lens mount is only interesting if you are using a Leica M. Then the right frame will come up in the viewfinder when mounting the lens. On a Bessa, you have to set the frame manually.

Philipp

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Some links to working on the J-3:

http://ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=97

http://pentax-manuals.com/repairs.htm

This is not hard to do. I've made fine-tuning shims from aluminum foil and copper tape before, and some thicker ones from old retaining rings from parts lenses.