my new Super 23

eddie1960

eddie1960

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I picked up a Super 23 the other day for a really good price. It will need a CLA, I can tell that already without even seeing the results from the first film, but that didn't come as a shock. It came with the 100 f3.5 collapsible and a 6x7 back, that unfortunately had no dark-slide (which seems to be a real Bugger to find)
Also no ground Glass back so the bellows will be useless until i find one. I'm also going to shop around for a 6x9 back

If anyone shooting these wonderful old monsters has tips on where i might find a darkslide it would be great. If there is anyone local to me in Toronto who knows a good service tech for them that would also be great. (I got it cheap enough that i could use it as a learner for doing my own service, but i know my skills in that area and I'd rather not)



_IGP0136.jpg by Eddie Smith, on Flickr
 
It is not that hard to cut your own darkslides, either from a 4x5 holder or some bit of sheet steel. IIRC there were two slightly different slide sizes, and yours should be the older one - probably someone here will have another silver one to give you the correct size.

The plain "lid type" ground glass backs are all over ebay. I'd urgently recommend one of the nicer ones with chimney, reflex finder or collapsing hood - the plain ones are rather misdesigned and far from user friendly.
 
What's wrong with it other than no ground glass and no dark slide for the back?

The best source for a dark slide is probably ebay. Look for a dark slide listed separately, or a dark slide listed with a parts back or a cut film holder. They are indeed hard to find. I have two I picked up about 3 years ago, and am not looking to get rid of them. I have a back I want to repair, and a cut film holder w/o one. Sorry. But they do come up from time to time. I have never tried it, but you might look for a graphic 6x7 cut film holder and carefully cut it to fit.

There are three types of ground glass/cut film holders. One is fairly rare and thus more expensive; the type that is a reflex cut film holder. Then there are the non-reflex cut film holders. You will see the older gray colored ones, and the new black ones. Either should do as long as the ground glass and bellows are intact. Even the bellows isn't critical as it can be taped. It doesn't have any function for photo taking, only viewing. There is also a ground glass that is for viewing only. You cannot use it with cut film. It is also fairly rare, but usually isn't so expensive as most people want one they can use with cut film holders.

A properly functioning Super Press 23 is a joy to use. But be careful. You will begin wanting extra backs, extension tubes, and extra lenses. Often the lenses will benefit from a CLA as well. But they sure are a joy to use and you will love the 6x7 or 6x9 negatives. BTW, there are two 250mm lenses. The 250mm f/8 is harder to find than even the 250mm f/5. But it is considerably smaller and lighter. It does not however, couple to the RF. The f/5 does.

Post if you have more questions. There are several RFFers that have either the Super Press 23 or the Universal. BTW, I have found the bellows back on the 23 not to be as useful as you might expect, so I wouldn't stress on a ground glass back until you are sure you want/need it. But then I don't know your photographic needs or preferences. It is nice when you need it.
 
sevo said:
It is not that hard to cut your own darkslides, either from a 4x5 holder or some bit of sheet steel. IIRC there were two slightly different slide sizes, and yours should be the older one - probably someone here will have another silver one to give you the correct size.

The plain "lid type" ground glass backs are all over ebay. I'd urgently recommend one of the nicer ones with chimney, reflex finder or collapsing hood - the plain ones are rather misdesigned and far from user friendly.
Click to expand...

Well I see sevo has mentioned cutting down another slide as well. It should work but as I said, I have never needed to so never tried. I never found the use of the non-reflex gg/cut film holders to be a big proglem to use, but on a very bright day you might need a dark clother or big billed hat. Sevo and I seem to be using different terminology for the gg backs, so I'm not sure what he is referring to. I consider him very knowledgable so maybe he and I just have different things that please/displease us.
 
thanks for all the info. I had heard the dark slide was pretty thin, I can cut my own easily enough I just need the thickness
The one other lens I was really interested in was the 65 w/ it's finder for shooting landscapes. I'm pretty certain once i get functional with this my Bronica will go to sale to fund additional bits and pieces for this one.
the shutter needs a CLA that is the other thing wrong (RF may be off as well but until i process a film i can't be 100% on either of these points. I've found a local guy who I knew of who quoted 160-200 f- Shutter, RF, transport, optics, back, seals assuming no surprises, it will likely go to him after i assess the first roll
I will grab a 6x9 back as i like the aspect ratio.
for the bellows it was really to play with tilt shift. if i get the 65 and want to shoot buildings in the city tilt shift would be very useful. I'm not a massive macro guy on any of my cameras but you never know
 
I took my best photographs ever with my mamiya super 23, but I mostly used 50mm lens. I really loved that camera, but I sold it because it was too big and heavy for traveling :(

I really recommand buying Sekor 50mm 6.3 lens. It has virtualy no barrel distortion and its really sharp lens.

Good luck with it.
 
thanks matschka

i haven't seen one pop up yet. I think a lot of people are holding on to these now

I'll hit the swap meets that happen sporadically as well, and in my regular junk shop rounds looking for old pentax glass i'll keep my eyes open stranger things have popped up
 
I own three gg back types - one with chimney hood (much like the unmetered rigid chimney hood for the RB67), a reflex one, and some of the regular soapboxy things with the upward swinging lid (these tend to accumulate, as gg backs with three holders tend to be much cheaper than three individual holders without back). There also seems to have been a fourth back type, with a folding leather hood, but YMMV - so far I've always been outbid on that, and the ebay sellers' claims that it is M rather than G type might be wrong.

The 65mm lens is somewhat like the early Schneider Angulon. Stopped down it is very good, but it has its sweet spot not until f/16-f/22. Personally I have never used mine with its finder, as the latter is absurdly oversized and pretty much does away with the main advantage of the tiny, light lens - if I want to carry both lens and finder I can as well bring along the 50mm.

The 50mm and 75mm are far more modern Biogon type designs, and much superior in vignetting and corner sharpness even when fully open - but they tend to cost five times as much....
 
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eddie1960 said:
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The one other lens I was really interested in was the 65 w/ it's finder for shooting landscapes.
...

for the bellows it was really to play with tilt shift. if i get the 65 and want to shoot buildings in the city tilt shift would be very useful. I'm not a massive macro guy on any of my cameras but you never know
Click to expand...

The 65mm lens is nice. It is a wide and it is the smallest and as far as I know, the lightest lens available for the Press cameras. I certainly enjoyed mine.

As to the bellows back, there is no shift. The bellows back is mostly useful for focus control. There is only a 15 degree movement. Still, if you need it for that, it is useful. Sometimes aperture just can't control it all, or won't work due to the amount of light. Then you will be glad you have it.

As to gg backs, this is the most common type, http://cgi.ebay.com/Mamiya-Press-Fo...490?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0cc6535a and often sells for about $40.00 USD. This one, http://cgi.ebay.com/MAMIYA-PRESS-RE...977?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf541c239 is one of the two types of eyepiece backs. The other is reflex and turns so it can be used in either horizontal or verticle modes.

EDIT: I just changed the url of the first back. I inadvertantly copied the wrong one before.
 
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sevo said:
I own three gg back types - one with chimney hood (much like the unmetered rigid chimney hood for the RB67), a reflex one, and some of the regular soapboxy things with the upward swinging lid (these tend to accumulate, as gg backs with three holders tend to be much cheaper than three individual holders without back). There also seems to have been a fourth back type, with a folding leather hood, but YMMV - so far I've always been outbid on that, and the ebay sellers' claims that it is M rather than G type might be wrong.
Click to expand...

I have the type you are talking about with the upward swinging lid, as well as the type with the folding leather hood. The latter seldom seem to show up on ebay. If one never wants to use a cut film back, they are good and should be cheaper, but might not be. They all fit both the Universal (with M back), and the Super Press 23. I never heard of a gg back that would fit the G back, but there may have been one.

EDIT: When I say they all fit the Super Press 23, I am of course referring to the ones without the G back. AFAIK only the older 23's had a model that came with a G back that I don't think was interchangeable.
 
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thanks Sevo
this one is a whole new learning curve for me right down to the leaf shutter (which seems to be operating like a self timer after cocking a slow movement then the shutter which I assume is wrong, i know it sat for a long time before i bought it)
up to now my Med format experience is the ETRSI which is a great camera to use but i've been feeling the pull of 6x7 and larger for a while but wanted to stay a little more compact (the RB67/Penta67 etc are all pretty damn huge and cost signifigantly more than this did as well even taking CLA costs into account) I know Annie Leibowitz and others love the big mamiya 67's but they usually have a team to help lug it around lol
 
Eddie, if you're going to use this camera seriously, I'd recommend to look for a modern 6x7 back. It's a world of difference in terms of usability and chance that the seals are still in a good condition.

Be patient on ebay and ask around the forums. The negatives from these Mamiya's are indeed super.

In case you're curious, I have a black MUP with 100/2.8 lens with one old style 6x9 back and a modern style 6x7 back.
 
Seals on a lot of the backs are at an age where the seals may need replacing. I have some that are still light tight, but look not so good so I will get some material and replace them.

The newer backs with the wind lever make the Press cameras surprisingly 35mm like in handling. you are going to like them.
 
The Mamiya Press backs in any variation have excellent planarity. And the bulk are essentially the same as the one Eddie already has - single format rapid wind with flip-over pressure plate for 120/220. Apart from these there also were earlier knob-transport red-window and red-window multi-format ones, and the late ones with integrated cable release and double exposure prevention. The late ones are very slick and make the Universal handle almost like a Fuji GW. But at the core the different versions are merely handling variations - the S-shape principle is common to all of them.
 
i'm following a few items on ebay right now, one is the basic focus screen, and a couple of backs mostly 6x9 ones with the lever wind, i was going to avoid the older knob models unless they looked stellar
no rush really the weather won't be nice for a couple of months yet and i have a lot of other gear. plus i want to deal with the CLA first unless i see a smoking deal on something

thanks for all the info guys
 
sevo said:
...

and the late ones with integrated cable release and double exposure prevention. The late ones are very slick and make the Universal handle almost like a Fuji GW. But at the core the different versions are merely handling variations - the S-shape principle is common to all of them.
Click to expand...

I have only seen photos of those with integrated cable release. Several years ago a pro-photo on PopPhoto showed a photo, and commented they were specially made. Some years later, I saw one on ebay, but the price skyrocketed through the roof almost immediately and I didn't even try to bid on it. Have you used them? They sure did look cool. I also didn't realize or had forgotten they had double exposure prevention. How did it work?
 
oftheherd said:
Some years later, I saw one on ebay, but the price skyrocketed through the roof almost immediately and I didn't even try to bid on it. Have you used them? They sure did look cool. I also didn't realize or had forgotten they had double exposure prevention. How did it work?
Click to expand...

I converted to them about two years ago. Complete kits and separate cables are disproportionally expensive, but film holders missing the cable sometimes turn up for more reasonable prices. When I stumbled upon an affordable late series Universal with Polaroid back and three cables the seller (and other bidders) did not know what they were good for, I only had to pick up some orphan holders and was set.

Double exposure prevention works with all lenses - you have to wind on before you may press the trigger the next time, and must pull the dark slide to unlock the trigger. With late lenses, it also does blank prevention - the cable will only reach fully down and unlock the mechanism if the shutter has been tensioned and is successfully released.

It makes the camera lighter and more like a 35mm camera in operation, as it eliminates the need for the left hand release grip - the camera can be held at the film holder, and released/wound with the right hand index finger and thumb as usual.
 
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