Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
You are quite lucky that you write as well as you do, which allows you some freedom that we IT types don't have. And, as I'm almost always requested to be at a client site or place of emplotment, I'm almost always working for American management, most of whom may be as pleasant to deal with as the American editors you mention.
So, if a little backside kissing does help put food on the table, what exactly is wrong with it? Now, were I so darn good I could write my own ticket, thinks could be quite different.
Johnmcd
Well-known
And there I was, so quick to weed out a supposed Liberal supporter. I am ashamed of myself
Viva la Republic!
TheHub
Well-known
Has this ever happened to you?
When I was in college my photo teacher yelled at me in front of everyone because I wasn't rinsing my prints enough. His words were "You're the one everyone's been complaining about!" Most of the photo department looked on.
Undeterred I still do photography now. He can suck it
yanidel
Well-known
It is always easy to disregard others experiences and call them limited when you do not know them. And if we did not do some generalization, you would probably tell us that we base our judgement on isolated cases or exceptions. If you do some research on the internet, you will also find that scores on maths tests vary significantly from country to country (taking the same test of course at the same age). I am also pretty sure that all kids are born with the same level of intellingence on average, therefore society and its educational system must have a pretty strong influence on the way we develop.
As for good deparments/universities/good courses ... yes ... you are right ... but you forget one big variable : if you do not pay the big bucks, the good ones don´t come. Which links it all back to the educational system. CQFD.
marke
Well-known
Good for you, Roger! I just bought my first house this past January, and I don't owe a dime...for the house or for anything else. I made some good choices year ago when it came to spending my money, and at age 49 it has all paid off.
I've been debt free for many years now. I only pay cash for cars, and don't even own a credit card. Even all my Leica (and other camera gear) is paid for.
yanidel
Well-known
I envy you Roger for that. Though I make a point not to "lick the backsides" (nice litteral style
), I must admit that I can´t afford yet to tell the many people I don´t like they are as.....les . I am still 34, no house and probably will have to work till I am 74 as our ruling heads will find a way to raise the retirement age. In some ways, no different than the undergrad not telling his teacher to go to Hell, yet probably 15 years older to know that you can´t win an argument against a teacher/boss with an average level of intelligence.
MikeL
Go Fish
Yanidel, you'll notice I said my viewpoint is limited as well. I'm not arrogant enough to think that I understand what is going on at other departments or universities or other universities in other countries. I don't see how you could either, hence a limit to one's ability to generalize or extrapolate beyond their experience.
As for research on the internet, no thanks, but I am aware of the falling test scores. I'm also aware that some professors will rarely take on graduate students from certain countries, countries with very high test scores, unless they've had a significant amount of time with the prospective student. They had enough experience with students who looked great on paper, who could recite a whole text book, but could not formulate their own research study or think on their feet when things turned 'interesting'. They could have generalized and excluded anyone from that system, but instead they continued to treat them as individuals and see if they were going to be a good fit.
If we judge things not on test scores, but say, on contributions to a field of study, should we generalize on the success of a system from those results? I don't think so, since there are many factors involved other than a score of contributions (big bucks, as you put it, for one).
Back to the original poster, if you are really concerned about the fairness of your grade, I'd recommend you mention to the teacher your concerns and whether you should arrange a talk with the teacher and the dean about it. If nothing else you can communicate clearly that your critique was not meant to be personal, and given that it wasn't, you are still interested in her response to the things you brought up.
As for research on the internet, no thanks, but I am aware of the falling test scores. I'm also aware that some professors will rarely take on graduate students from certain countries, countries with very high test scores, unless they've had a significant amount of time with the prospective student. They had enough experience with students who looked great on paper, who could recite a whole text book, but could not formulate their own research study or think on their feet when things turned 'interesting'. They could have generalized and excluded anyone from that system, but instead they continued to treat them as individuals and see if they were going to be a good fit.
If we judge things not on test scores, but say, on contributions to a field of study, should we generalize on the success of a system from those results? I don't think so, since there are many factors involved other than a score of contributions (big bucks, as you put it, for one).
Back to the original poster, if you are really concerned about the fairness of your grade, I'd recommend you mention to the teacher your concerns and whether you should arrange a talk with the teacher and the dean about it. If nothing else you can communicate clearly that your critique was not meant to be personal, and given that it wasn't, you are still interested in her response to the things you brought up.
yanidel
Well-known
The maths test is an example among others and I could not agree more with your comment that a good score is not reflective of the quality of a system/person. When participating in some interviews to hire staff, I would always be very cautious with the 10/10 students. Either they were no lives that spent life studying and had no interpersonal skills, either they did have a life, were smarter than I am and would end up taking my job.
But sorry, I am doing generalizations again.
gb hill
Veteran
Wilson!!
There ain't s*#t in Wilson N.C. except a Firestone plant & eastern style BBQ. Good luck with selling the house....I maen that.
gb hill
Veteran
We had this shop teacher in junior high named Mr. Allred. He was the most hateful man I have ever met. He gave us all a hard time & loved to show off his big wooden paddle. Loved using it too! He thought he was the worlds greatest wood worker til the ba#$*&d cut his finger off using a table top saw. He humbled down a bit after that.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Well... after reading Bill's humorous posts and a lot of stereotyping of college professors and education, I guess I should consider myself pretty much offended. After all, with a PhD in Spanish American literature and an MA in Comparative literature, I'm piled high...
But I won't go into that.
Boyscout, there are ways to tell things. Maybe it wasn't what you said, but the way you said it. And if you were taking a class with non-majors, the teacher (I quickly noticed that you didn't say "professor") must take a lot of cr@p from students complaining about having to take a class like hers. Who knows? Maybe you got her on a bad day.
Just try to be the student she expects you to be for the rest of the semester. Don't grovel, patronize or be eager to please, but act respectfully and think twice before giving your opinion. I've had my share of days, and, believe me, sometimes students can hurt without even knowing it. That may have been your case.
Good luck with your classes and good for you taking a class so far from your major. At times I wonder if students in a university understand that education doesn't equal training, and that taking a variety of classes instead of focusing only on the major adds a lot of depth to a person. Again, good for you for going this far for your electives.
But I won't go into that.
Boyscout, there are ways to tell things. Maybe it wasn't what you said, but the way you said it. And if you were taking a class with non-majors, the teacher (I quickly noticed that you didn't say "professor") must take a lot of cr@p from students complaining about having to take a class like hers. Who knows? Maybe you got her on a bad day.
Just try to be the student she expects you to be for the rest of the semester. Don't grovel, patronize or be eager to please, but act respectfully and think twice before giving your opinion. I've had my share of days, and, believe me, sometimes students can hurt without even knowing it. That may have been your case.
Good luck with your classes and good for you taking a class so far from your major. At times I wonder if students in a university understand that education doesn't equal training, and that taking a variety of classes instead of focusing only on the major adds a lot of depth to a person. Again, good for you for going this far for your electives.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Ned's a great photographer and contributes a lot to this forum but diplomacy and political correctness are not his strong suits. His remark flew well beneath the radar for most of us who are familiar with his ways and the fact that it drew so little attention is more an indication that we don't, and won't react ... not that we don't care!
oftheherd
Veteran
I hope the original poster has gained something from this thread. There are certainly a lot of contrasting ideas. Boy Scout will just have to see what fits his beliefs most closely and go with it. Myself, I have no problem telling superiors what I think. Some have been receptive, others not. I always tell them I am doing my job. I am not supporting them if I don't give them my opinion. Then it is up to them to decide whether or not to listen. They will no doubt be privy to information I am not. They will have some information I don't on which to make decisions. So may I. That is why I must tell them what I think, and why. I always tell my bosses I will tell them what I think, and will discuss or argue with them as long as they want. When they get tired, tell me to shut up and go do what they said. I I don't want them mad at me for expressing my beliefs, I shouldn't get mad just because the tell me the discussion is over and go do what I am told. That took me a while to learn by the way, I wasn't born with that.
Believe it or not, it worked well for me in the US Army, if I could get my bosses to understand where I was coming from and that I knew that ultimately, what they said was what was done. It has worked less well in civilian life (go figure), but even there it usually works out. If not, if I am constantly looked upon as stupid, and not worth listening to, I just shut up and try to do my job as best as I can. I owe that to my employers and more importantly, to myself.
As to the US education system. It isn't perfect. There are too many teachers who don't allow any flexibility in learning. They are the teacher (at whatever level), they worked hard to learn, and how could anyone doubt they know best? There are also some gifted teachers who are "called" to teaching. They are willing to work long hours for little pay as long as they think they are helping students to get excited about learning. They teach their subject and they teach life. They are usually remembered fondly for a long time.
I have had a lot of young people complain to me that their teacher doesn't like them. That can happen. I always tell them what they have to do is not let that bad teacher steal their education from them. Don't accept that the teacher doesn't like them and there is no point in trying. Go learn anyway!
Sorry, I don't know any better advice than that.
EDIT: I didn't read much more than three or four pages of this thread then decided to post. From the post above, looks like Bill is surprisingly on track with my thoughts after all, as does Nikonwebmaster.
Believe it or not, it worked well for me in the US Army, if I could get my bosses to understand where I was coming from and that I knew that ultimately, what they said was what was done. It has worked less well in civilian life (go figure), but even there it usually works out. If not, if I am constantly looked upon as stupid, and not worth listening to, I just shut up and try to do my job as best as I can. I owe that to my employers and more importantly, to myself.
As to the US education system. It isn't perfect. There are too many teachers who don't allow any flexibility in learning. They are the teacher (at whatever level), they worked hard to learn, and how could anyone doubt they know best? There are also some gifted teachers who are "called" to teaching. They are willing to work long hours for little pay as long as they think they are helping students to get excited about learning. They teach their subject and they teach life. They are usually remembered fondly for a long time.
I have had a lot of young people complain to me that their teacher doesn't like them. That can happen. I always tell them what they have to do is not let that bad teacher steal their education from them. Don't accept that the teacher doesn't like them and there is no point in trying. Go learn anyway!
Sorry, I don't know any better advice than that.
EDIT: I didn't read much more than three or four pages of this thread then decided to post. From the post above, looks like Bill is surprisingly on track with my thoughts after all, as does Nikonwebmaster.
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BigSteveG
Well-known
I ended up dropping my last photo course partly because I didn't like the way the instructor insisted on picking my images for class assignment submissions. He also expected to dictate what type of image makes for an "abstract". I decided to use an image of a wheel. He said it wasn't abstract because the object was still discernible as a wheel. The course I took before that was a waste of time. It was photo 101 and listed in the catalog as being taught w/ film only. The "teacher" wanted to be "nice" becuase some people already owned DSLRs (or just wanted to buy them). And she allowed a mix of film and digital in the class. As the result of that class, not one of those students could even recite whole aperture or shutter speeds or figure an equivalent exposure. I was a loudmouth in that class I admit. Since I'm not a major and do this for fun, the "B" she assigned me really means nothing.
I've pretty much given up on formal education. It's too much of a game.
I've pretty much given up on formal education. It's too much of a game.