bmattock
Veteran
Not really expecting any useful advice, just venting...
I was the high (actually the only) bidder on a lens on eBay on June 5. Paid in full via PayPal the same day. Seller had minimal feedback, but all 100%, and his eBay account went back several years (I got my eBay account in 1996 and I have 100% positive feedback).
No contact from seller for 2 solid weeks. I finally emailed him using the eBay mail system.
No response.
Emailed again.
No response.
Emailed one more time, this time threatening to complain to PayPal and get a refund if he did not reply.
No response.
Found his 'offline' email address on the PayPal receipt and emailed him there.
He replied "Oh, I was out of town and forgot the auction had closed. I'll have my friend mail you the lens."
Then he sends me a $10 refund via PayPal, "for your trouble."
Another week goes by. No lens.
I email him again on the email address he actually responds to. He writes back and says "The lens is sent. Please wait a few days."
Another week goes by. No lens.
I email again. Another response "I TOLD YOU THE LENS WAS SENT, WAIT A FEW DAYS!!!"
No lens.
I file a complaint with PayPal. They first require us to try to 'work it out' via email. Seller tells me he has a post office receipt. He emails it to me. It shows the package 'was delivered' to my town. No address, no signature (which would be impossible since I did not get it), just 'delivered' as the status.
I say well that's great and all, but I didn't get the lens. I checked with my apartment management office - no lens. I get packages there all the time, I've never had one go missing. They log everything that comes in, they showed me the log on the day it was supposedly 'delivered' - no entry for me, no entry from him. I don't think they're lying to me.
Seller suggests I try to 'get a refund from the apartment management or the post office' and says he no longer wishes to be involved in the situation.
I escalate the PayPal dispute to a refund demand.
PayPal asks seller for his side of the story, he provides the post office delivery certification.
PayPal decides against me. No refund. I also have no lens. It wasn't a cheap lens.
If the seller had offered insurance, or signature-required delivery, and I had declined it, I could see it being my problem. But he didn't offer any such thing, and there was no way to add it to the PayPal invoice, or I would have.
So from my point of view, I am due a refund. But the seller refuses and PayPal refuses.
OK, so no problem.
I filed a complaint with the credit card company I used to pay PayPal. I believe that should do the trick and I should get my money back.
But what a hassle. And yes, I neg'd the seller. I'm sure he may have had his 'friend' ship something, but it wasn't sent to me, because I never got it. It's on his head to get it to me, and the post office 'delivery confirmation' obviously means nothing, because no matter what it says, I didn't get it.
Oh well, life goes on. But it doesn't make for a sunny day when this kind of stuff happens.
I was the high (actually the only) bidder on a lens on eBay on June 5. Paid in full via PayPal the same day. Seller had minimal feedback, but all 100%, and his eBay account went back several years (I got my eBay account in 1996 and I have 100% positive feedback).
No contact from seller for 2 solid weeks. I finally emailed him using the eBay mail system.
No response.
Emailed again.
No response.
Emailed one more time, this time threatening to complain to PayPal and get a refund if he did not reply.
No response.
Found his 'offline' email address on the PayPal receipt and emailed him there.
He replied "Oh, I was out of town and forgot the auction had closed. I'll have my friend mail you the lens."
Then he sends me a $10 refund via PayPal, "for your trouble."
Another week goes by. No lens.
I email him again on the email address he actually responds to. He writes back and says "The lens is sent. Please wait a few days."
Another week goes by. No lens.
I email again. Another response "I TOLD YOU THE LENS WAS SENT, WAIT A FEW DAYS!!!"
No lens.
I file a complaint with PayPal. They first require us to try to 'work it out' via email. Seller tells me he has a post office receipt. He emails it to me. It shows the package 'was delivered' to my town. No address, no signature (which would be impossible since I did not get it), just 'delivered' as the status.
I say well that's great and all, but I didn't get the lens. I checked with my apartment management office - no lens. I get packages there all the time, I've never had one go missing. They log everything that comes in, they showed me the log on the day it was supposedly 'delivered' - no entry for me, no entry from him. I don't think they're lying to me.
Seller suggests I try to 'get a refund from the apartment management or the post office' and says he no longer wishes to be involved in the situation.
I escalate the PayPal dispute to a refund demand.
PayPal asks seller for his side of the story, he provides the post office delivery certification.
PayPal decides against me. No refund. I also have no lens. It wasn't a cheap lens.
If the seller had offered insurance, or signature-required delivery, and I had declined it, I could see it being my problem. But he didn't offer any such thing, and there was no way to add it to the PayPal invoice, or I would have.
So from my point of view, I am due a refund. But the seller refuses and PayPal refuses.
OK, so no problem.
I filed a complaint with the credit card company I used to pay PayPal. I believe that should do the trick and I should get my money back.
But what a hassle. And yes, I neg'd the seller. I'm sure he may have had his 'friend' ship something, but it wasn't sent to me, because I never got it. It's on his head to get it to me, and the post office 'delivery confirmation' obviously means nothing, because no matter what it says, I didn't get it.
Oh well, life goes on. But it doesn't make for a sunny day when this kind of stuff happens.
Chris101
summicronia
Hey Bill, the e of ebay means evil, right?
Didn't you read the lecture by that Oscar Levant guy in the other ebay thread? All you need to do is call the pretty girl and they will take care of all your earthly needs.
Didn't you read the lecture by that Oscar Levant guy in the other ebay thread? All you need to do is call the pretty girl and they will take care of all your earthly needs.
bmattock
Veteran
I had already filed my PayPal complaint by the time that thread started. Not going to go back now and waste more time fighting eBay, while my right to dispute the charge with my credit card company's window of opportunity closes. So I filed the dispute with my cc company after PayPal shot me down. I believe (hope) that they will refund my money. I'm sorry for the seller - I suspect he did have his friend send the lens, but to whom is another question. I never got it, and I'm not going to eat the loss.
Oh, and by the way - I just re-read the response PayPal sent me - they decided to threaten me whilst denying my claim:
Nice. So I paid the same day the auction closed, in full, waited patiently for a very long time, had amicable emails with the seller, and never got what I paid for - AND I AM THE CROOK? That's just sweet.
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Chris101
summicronia
I complained to paypal once. They canceled my account. They are forever on my feek-list. My girlfriend bought a moderately expensive thing off ebay once, at the BIN price. The seller sent her an old paperback book all wrapped up, even though that is not what she ordered (an iTouch 'pod.) She complained, but they had the UPS delivery receipt and denied her complaint and sent her the threat too.
I really doubt that there is a 20 something clerk sitting in the ebay/paypal office willing to give instant and full refunds just for the asking. Doesn't seem like a viable biz plan, but I think the ebay thing has had it's day, and is now in decline. But that could take a very long time. I still get those Nigerian money offers too.
I really doubt that there is a 20 something clerk sitting in the ebay/paypal office willing to give instant and full refunds just for the asking. Doesn't seem like a viable biz plan, but I think the ebay thing has had it's day, and is now in decline. But that could take a very long time. I still get those Nigerian money offers too.
thomasw_
Well-known
Bill - That is so capital L lame. But the bold part of the quoted text from PayPal does NOT seem to refer to you in a threatening manner, rather to the seller. It is as though PP will keep a look out for you in this matter; I know, I know, that is not very comforting.
I hope your credit card company is able to get you your cash back.
Good cheer, Thomas
I hope your credit card company is able to get you your cash back.
Good cheer, Thomas
dmr
Registered Abuser
And people wonder why I seldom use E-gag anymore! 
bmattock
Veteran
Ah, you're right. I didn't read it correctly.
I just scanned it and didn't read it well enough. Oh well. In any case, PayPal has sealed themselves off from future contact with me with regard to the case - I can click on the 'dispute' link but can't do anything with it. There is a link which lets me 'appeal' but only if I first state that I *did* receive the item after all, and wish to dispute the condition of it. Well, I'm not going to lie - I didn't get it at all, so I have no idea what the condition was.
I also doubt the seller is a scam artist. But the lack of communication, added to the general attitude ('just wait a few more days!') from the seller, makes me less than concerned for his well-being.
bmattock
Veteran
And people wonder why I seldom use E-gag anymore!
Well, my record hasn't been half-bad. Over 650 positive transaction since 1996, one bad selling transaction and one bad buying transaction. There have been lots of little disappointments, items that were substantially not as described, but I've been pretty laid-back about them. When a $10 camera turns out to have a stuck shutter, well, I generally just let it go.
It's just that when things go sideways, it is really aggravating. I feel like I've just been mugged.
pphuang
brain drain...
Cut and paste from paypal:
Proof of delivery
Proof of delivery is acceptable documentation if a buyer files a claim, chargeback, or reversal for either an unauthorized payment or merchandise not received. You need online tracking information from a shipping company that:
Shows the status as delivered.
Shows the date of delivery.
Includes the recipient’s address, showing at least the city/state or ZIP code (or their equivalent).
For payments of $250 USD (or local currency equivalent) or more, includes proof of the recipient's signature to confirm delivery.
I'm assuming the item in question was less than $250, otherwise, your seller's "proof of delivery" would not have bee sufficient to deny your claim. I always assumed that signature confirmation was always a requirement for seller protection, and didn't realize that there was a minimum dollar amount. Just goes to show that you really need to read the fine print...
Proof of delivery
Proof of delivery is acceptable documentation if a buyer files a claim, chargeback, or reversal for either an unauthorized payment or merchandise not received. You need online tracking information from a shipping company that:
Shows the status as delivered.
Shows the date of delivery.
Includes the recipient’s address, showing at least the city/state or ZIP code (or their equivalent).
For payments of $250 USD (or local currency equivalent) or more, includes proof of the recipient's signature to confirm delivery.
I'm assuming the item in question was less than $250, otherwise, your seller's "proof of delivery" would not have bee sufficient to deny your claim. I always assumed that signature confirmation was always a requirement for seller protection, and didn't realize that there was a minimum dollar amount. Just goes to show that you really need to read the fine print...
bmattock
Veteran
Correct, the total was less than $250 USD.