jakieff
Member
Hi
I still love the ZI. I came ( back ) to RF through the RFF and discovered a new passion, different from the digital life.
I bought it in my local shop here in Luxembourg and they will send it back, which means a month or so without the camera. In 12 months I had trouble with a D70 ( green light of depth ), a D200 ( problem with electronics ) a Oly C-8080 and now the ZI. I'm not a professional photographer, so I have no spare bodies, Ok I have a Bessa R and a Nikon S and a Oly E-500, but do not necessarly take all the cameras to my vacation trips. The Zi as the other cameras cost a lot of money and I have to agree that this makes me upset. I am not trying to make the ZI a bad camera, just want to share my observations ( problems ).
Jacques
I still love the ZI. I came ( back ) to RF through the RFF and discovered a new passion, different from the digital life.
I bought it in my local shop here in Luxembourg and they will send it back, which means a month or so without the camera. In 12 months I had trouble with a D70 ( green light of depth ), a D200 ( problem with electronics ) a Oly C-8080 and now the ZI. I'm not a professional photographer, so I have no spare bodies, Ok I have a Bessa R and a Nikon S and a Oly E-500, but do not necessarly take all the cameras to my vacation trips. The Zi as the other cameras cost a lot of money and I have to agree that this makes me upset. I am not trying to make the ZI a bad camera, just want to share my observations ( problems ).
Jacques
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
just chalk it up to some minor bad luck Jacques, the Zeiss camera is a quality product, but like anything else it can fail,
the good part is you found this out early and it is covered by a warranty.
the good part is you found this out early and it is covered by a warranty.
S
Socke
Guest
Sounds familiar, I break anything just by looking at itjakieff said:
I too think that we pay brand names for the QC. I just killed a brand new espresso maker, no problem, brought it back to the shop and got a replacement.
Same with my iPod, battery lifetime was down to half an hour after two weeks, got it replaced in a couple of minutes at the shop.
But with equipment which can't be replaced as easyly I expect it has been thoroughly checked befor it is delivered.
Huck Finn
Well-known
Socke said:
The good news is that Zeiss products are thoroughly checked before they leave the factory. Both my ZI & my ZM lens came with an inspection certificate, signed by the technician who checked it at the factory. It's been 30 years since I bought photography equipment that came with that level of QC. Even still, things happen . . . which is why we are protected by warrantees. BTW, no problem with my ZI in 15 months.
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
You have had several of them break on you? How many did you have altogether?
szrenner
Newbie
Interesting comments,
I bought a ZI together with 50mm/f2, both arrived here and the lens was OK but the range finder from the camera was de-adjusted. So I send it back to the dealer which provided me with a new one which was even worse. So they change it again, will be interesting to see how many I have to change to get a decent one.
Regards, Stefan
I bought a ZI together with 50mm/f2, both arrived here and the lens was OK but the range finder from the camera was de-adjusted. So I send it back to the dealer which provided me with a new one which was even worse. So they change it again, will be interesting to see how many I have to change to get a decent one.
Regards, Stefan
V
varjag
Guest
I wonder how many of defective ZI rangefinders became misaligned during transportation. I simply don't believe in this day of age so many cameras can leave Japanese factory under German supervision broken.
Maybe they really should start putting some bubble wrap in the camera behind the cam roller.
Maybe they really should start putting some bubble wrap in the camera behind the cam roller.
Huck Finn
Well-known
varjag said:
I agree, Varjag. We know that Zeiss has every camera & lens inspected before they leave the factory. A misaligned rangefinder is simplw to identify - especially for a trained inspector. Since we know that they are not leaving the factory that way, something is happening in between the time they leave the factory & the time they are in the customer's hands.
I think that it should be a simple matter for Zeiss to contract with dealers to inspect them on receipt & to correct a misalignment at the dealership. It's not hard to do & training would be minimal. Why wait for a customer to discover the problem & generate bad publicity? This will still leave the potential for problems with those that are shipped directly to the customer, but I think it could cut down on a lot of problems.
clintock
Galleryless Gearhead
I believe that for the newly manufactured bodies, some rangefinder calibration drift is bound to happen due to the metal and plastic or other materials being so newly stamped/machined/cast. The extremes in temperature the bodies are subject to in transport must also be considered, all those materials contracting and expanding at different rates when the temperature changes.
I agree that rangefinder alignment is something any competent dealer should be able to do.
I agree that rangefinder alignment is something any competent dealer should be able to do.
jjovin
Established
The expectation is that new things should always work flawlessly.
Unfortunately, that is not always the case as I have experienced it
with a misaligned range finder. There are many complaints
about the quality control and the use of plastics in Zeiss Ikon.
Well, Leica cameras are not without problems and "The Leica Quality"
is just a myth. Here is a recent link on the problems with a new Leica MP.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37426
My complaint is not as much about the problems with the camera (they get fixed),
as with the excesive repair time. I have been waiting for over 7 week
for the range finder to get aligned and the camera is still not here.
I guess, we just have to be a bit patient and tolerant and think about
the positive side of these cameras.
Regards to all in this group,
Zoran
Unfortunately, that is not always the case as I have experienced it
with a misaligned range finder. There are many complaints
about the quality control and the use of plastics in Zeiss Ikon.
Well, Leica cameras are not without problems and "The Leica Quality"
is just a myth. Here is a recent link on the problems with a new Leica MP.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37426
My complaint is not as much about the problems with the camera (they get fixed),
as with the excesive repair time. I have been waiting for over 7 week
for the range finder to get aligned and the camera is still not here.
I guess, we just have to be a bit patient and tolerant and think about
the positive side of these cameras.
Regards to all in this group,
Zoran
Olsen
Well-known
jakieff said:Hello
Just brought my ZI back to the shop
Last week, during a small trip to the Black forest in Germany, in the middle of a roll FP4, the first curtain of the shutter blocked. After touching it with a finger, it went back into position but I couldn't take a photo, because the film lever didn't work.
In the evening I put a new film in the camera for testing and everything appeared to work normally. I exposed three more rolls of film. But after development , i got the great surprise. Only three or four photoes per roll were exposed.
30 EUR costs for nothing !
This happened after only three rolls of film, the camera was brand new.
It seems that ZI has realy QC problems.
Jacques
Jacques,
It seems that the magnets driving the shutter curtains either came out of pace or the battery was to weak to activate them properly. I have had my ZI for a year now and have used it extensively - close to 60 rolls, and to my experience it is a very reliable camera. But it is vital to have a fresh battery installed properly. - Like with all modern cameras today.
Many ask; it's the ZI less reliable than, say, Leica MP?
I am convinced that the ZI is more reliable and durable than the Leica MP! I have both. The MP (2004 model, bought 2.hand) I have already been to the factory for repair: To fix a shutter curtain with a burned hole in it and having it's vulcanite (or whatever it is) replaced, - and it's rangefinder adjusted. According to it's first user the Leikca MP rangefinder has been adjusted twice.... In three years! The rangefinder is a weak spot on most (all?) rangefinder cameras. Regardless if it is Zeiss Ikon or Leica (or Contax, Hasselblad XPan..?).
My ZI is off at infinity, but I can't find a single negative frame that is off focus, - and I have looked through 'tonns' of scanned (Nikon 8000ED) negs to my eyes get wet and sore. That could be share luck and I intend to send it to the factory to have it fixed. - If not to get sharper pictures - the pictures I take with my ZI and 25 mm 2,8 Biogon is about the sharpest I take - so to keep up with you guys.
Further: I am convinced that the old fashioned spring activated & oil lubricated shutter of Leica is hardly able to take more than 100.000 exposures before it breaks down. Trying to find a good 2.hand Leica I wen thru a whole carton of well used Leicas at Foto/C in Copenhagen to find that none of them were in working order! - So, if you are looking for reliability; look elsewhere.
The magnet driven shutter of ZI is a modern design common in most SLR and D-SLR cameras of today. They are activated by magnets and teflon lubricated and lasts easily for 200.000 exposures +. In fact; the shutter of the new M8 is indeed a similar design as that of the Zeiss Ikon,- if that vouch for quality, - æhum...
Some here have had bad experience with the finish of the ZI.
Even here I see little advantage of the Leica MP. The MP I have have already had it's vulcanite (or whatever it is) replaced. Shure, it looks good. My black ZI has a finish that is just as fine as the MP. Or very close. The black laquer is similar to my Leica MP and the soft rubber-like cover of the ZI is comfortable to use, sturdy and nice looking after a year's use in 'the jungles of Malaysia to the high mountains of Norway'. Those who have had problems have either had their cameras overheated (more than 120 C...?) or in touch with eching cemicals, like battery acid. There is no other way you can get rubber to 'float'.
What the ZI hasn't, but that the Leica has a lot of is 'the feel' of quality. There is something about the Leica MP that makes it stand out to just any camera I have (from Canon 1Ds II to a stack of Hasselblads etc. etc) - and the Leica 'charms' just everybody with or without any camera knowledge at all. The Leica 'looks the part', so to say, and the MP is the correct thing to 'wear' on the coming European RFF meet in Paris later this year.
- But the ZI will do the job of documenting the happening just as good. Possibly better, with it's brighter viewfinder and AE, slightly better optics and over all better reliability.
Not only that; I stand the chance of being kicked out of this forum to make this statement.
Hmm, really?
Xmas
Veteran
troll warning...
When the UK consumer magazine sent six accelerometers through the post their experiment (to see if packages were mal treated) failed all six reached their destinatinon broken.
End of troll warning
My M2 had to go back to leitz as the brass gears had worn sufficiently to not wind on, they replaced most everything, might a been more than 100k.
Noel
When the UK consumer magazine sent six accelerometers through the post their experiment (to see if packages were mal treated) failed all six reached their destinatinon broken.
End of troll warning
My M2 had to go back to leitz as the brass gears had worn sufficiently to not wind on, they replaced most everything, might a been more than 100k.
Noel
Krosya
Konicaze
Huck Finn said:
Or Do we? Just to be a devil's advocate here. (And no, I'm not trying to badmouth ZI or Zeiss as a company). But really, the fact that it comes with a piece of paper that has some signature on it really means nothing. As you may know, most if not all cameras made in former USSR came with such a thing. I have seen them personally. A certificate, a stamp and a signature that camera was checked and working. Yet we all know what quality control level they had. So what makes Zeiss different? They may just sign a paper to make a customer feel better, yet they don't really check it too well. While everyone seems to think that its so easy to knock off RF out of alignment (and it may be so), yet I had my M3, IIIf , M6 and even Bessa R travel though mail, bounce in a car and yet none had this problem. However, with ZI it seems to be enough to just mail it to a dealer or from a dealer to a customer and RF is off. DOesn't make sence to me, other than maybe, just maybe it was NOT checked as well as we think? I don;t know. Also, I'd expect for a dealer to check each one before it leaves the shop that it has no RF problems. Typically only a few Pro level dealers have ZI to begin with - so they are fully able to do so. After all its a ZI - not some cheap camera they sell by a dozen. Not that many sell each day.
Just some of my thoughts on this, so don't get all upset here. As a consumer - I'm very critical of every product before I buy it. And belive me - I did very seriously think of getting a ZI. (still do), Some may remember me asking all sorts of questions about it. So far I was comfortable to get M6 instead. But I hope that one day I'll be comfortable enough to get ZI. Hope it'll be soon.
Huck Finn
Well-known
Krosya said:
I can't disprove a negative. The burden of proof is on you. Do you have any evidence that they don't inxpect them? They sya they do. They have a longstanding reputation for doing so. I have to take them at their word.
What you're accusing them of is fraud. It would be incredibly foolish for them to run the risk of doing this. All they would need would be for one disgruntled worker to expose them & they'd be open to a spate of lawsuits. It would be especially foolish because it's not something they have to do to keep up with the competition since no one else does it these days.
It sounds like you should take this issue up directly with Zeiss since they are the only ones who have the capability of answering this question. I hate to say it but if you don't go to the source first, you're just smearing them. Rich Schleuning is the Zeiss USA Sales Director & he has posted on this site. Why not send him an e-mail & at least give him a shot at your question before we deteriorate into a series of unfounded accusations & rumors.
Krosya
Konicaze
Huck Finn said:
I do not accuse anyone. I just propose an alternative idea. It can happen. Right? Not likely, yet possible. Just another "possible" explanation of why some things the way they are. Far worse things had happened in different industries, including medicine and insurance where human lives could be at stake. This is a minor issue and very well possible. I didn't , however, say that they WERE indeed doing so. Just a thought that they could. Keep an open mind.