Danny D
Member
So this might be kind of an obvious question, but I recently got my hands on a Nikon FM2 and my attempts at portraiture are out of focus quite often. I'm using a 85/1.4, stopped down to f/2-2.8 mostly. My screen is a K3 with the split prism.
I accept that there's always going to be a percentage of missed shots, I'd just like to hear ideas on how to minimize those. I also realize that something more electronic like an F6 might be a huge leap forward for me, but I can't afford another camera right now.
Do you guys focus on the eye then reframe? Do you rock the focus ring back and forth or come in from one direction, do you physically lean in get the shot?
Like, what process do you go through to take a shallow DoF head & shoulders portrait?
Any thoughts welcome!
I accept that there's always going to be a percentage of missed shots, I'd just like to hear ideas on how to minimize those. I also realize that something more electronic like an F6 might be a huge leap forward for me, but I can't afford another camera right now.
Do you guys focus on the eye then reframe? Do you rock the focus ring back and forth or come in from one direction, do you physically lean in get the shot?
Like, what process do you go through to take a shallow DoF head & shoulders portrait?
Any thoughts welcome!
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
Tripod. Cable release. Faster Shutter speed. ...if possible.
Without those, I will minimally move the camera closer/farther (not removing it from my eye) to lock in focus on the eyes yes if that's the main point of interest.
Without those, I will minimally move the camera closer/farther (not removing it from my eye) to lock in focus on the eyes yes if that's the main point of interest.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Get your camera checked out to ensure that the mirror is properly adjusted to give identical focus on the screen as on the film plane.
Phil Forrest
Phil Forrest
zuiko85
Veteran
Several questions.
Do you wear glasses? If so what is the correction? Nearsighted or farsighted? Do you use your glasses (or contacts) when looking through the eyepiece?
Although I cannot attest for sure this is true for an FM2 but in my experience most cameras with fixed eyepieces are factory set to -1 diopter. This means that when you look through the eyepiece your eye is trying to focus on image on the screen that appears to be 1 meter away.
So, if you hold a printed page at one meter from your eye, can you clearly see the page.
If you need to move the page closer to see clearly then you need stronger correction at the eyepiece to see the screen. When these cameras were sold new screw in correction diopters were commonly available. Now, they can be harder to find.
Back in the 70’s, working at a camera store, I always made sure my customers with a brand new SLR could see the screen clearly before they left the store.
I sold a lot of correction diopters. My experience was that 1/2 of all complaints about fuzzy prints was caused by an inability see the screen clearly enough to focus accurately.
(The other half was camera motion.)
Edit, Of course most all modern cameras have adjustable diopter eyepieces. And have you noticed that most folks who regularly wear glasses push them up when the are handed a camera to look through. Even with modern digital ILC cameras it is often hard to see the whole view wearing glasses.
Do you wear glasses? If so what is the correction? Nearsighted or farsighted? Do you use your glasses (or contacts) when looking through the eyepiece?
Although I cannot attest for sure this is true for an FM2 but in my experience most cameras with fixed eyepieces are factory set to -1 diopter. This means that when you look through the eyepiece your eye is trying to focus on image on the screen that appears to be 1 meter away.
So, if you hold a printed page at one meter from your eye, can you clearly see the page.
If you need to move the page closer to see clearly then you need stronger correction at the eyepiece to see the screen. When these cameras were sold new screw in correction diopters were commonly available. Now, they can be harder to find.
Back in the 70’s, working at a camera store, I always made sure my customers with a brand new SLR could see the screen clearly before they left the store.
I sold a lot of correction diopters. My experience was that 1/2 of all complaints about fuzzy prints was caused by an inability see the screen clearly enough to focus accurately.
(The other half was camera motion.)
Edit, Of course most all modern cameras have adjustable diopter eyepieces. And have you noticed that most folks who regularly wear glasses push them up when the are handed a camera to look through. Even with modern digital ILC cameras it is often hard to see the whole view wearing glasses.
willie_901
Veteran
Besides the useful responses above, it's possible the DOF you prefer is incompatible with focus and recompose.
It is most effective to critically focus at the center of the frame. If the focus target does not happen to be in the center of the frame when you choose the final composition, then you will move the camera. Now the eye will not be in focus. The mis-focus will be small, but it might be enough to cause problems.
Lens with longer focal lengths increase the subject to camera distance to achieve the same composition with a shorter focal length lens. The longer the distance the lower the focus and recompose error.
Newer SLRs let you move the focus point around the frame. Now the focus point can be optimized without moving the camera as much - or at all.
It is most effective to critically focus at the center of the frame. If the focus target does not happen to be in the center of the frame when you choose the final composition, then you will move the camera. Now the eye will not be in focus. The mis-focus will be small, but it might be enough to cause problems.
Lens with longer focal lengths increase the subject to camera distance to achieve the same composition with a shorter focal length lens. The longer the distance the lower the focus and recompose error.
Newer SLRs let you move the focus point around the frame. Now the focus point can be optimized without moving the camera as much - or at all.
Freakscene
Obscure member
If you focus and recompose with very little depth of field not many photographers can reliably prevent the movement from making the photo out of focus. It will help if you can learn to focus off the screen framed as the photo is intended to be framed. I found this achievable on an FM with the 85/1.4, but an F3 with an H2 screen makes it easier.
Also be aware that when you focus an SLR wide open and it stops down to shoot you incur any focus shift the lens might have. This isn’t too much of an issue with the Nikkor 85/1.4, but it is a complicating factor with some lenses.
Marty
Also be aware that when you focus an SLR wide open and it stops down to shoot you incur any focus shift the lens might have. This isn’t too much of an issue with the Nikkor 85/1.4, but it is a complicating factor with some lenses.
Marty
Larry H-L
Well-known
Part of the soft image issue could be from slight camera shake, an SLR with a mirror could cause some unintended movement. This usually starts to show up at speeds slower than 1/60th if you are hand holding the body.
GMOG
Well-known
I've been shooting with an FM since the mid-1990s, using a variety of lenses. I'll second what others have said about using the ground glass area outside the center of the frame for establishing focus on stuff like eyes. It's helpful if you've got a reflection on those eyes, a sharp, bright spot to see on the screen. I usually move focus in and out, taking a few cycles to tighten up on what I want to focus on.
f.hayek
Well-known
You’ve all forgotten focus shift. Use the preview lever to see what you will get first
Doug A
Well-known
Plain matte/fresnel E screen (in my Nikon F), diopter correction, rock the focus through smaller and smaller arcs. If the picture is not in focus it was camera shake.
Hence, if the image really matters I use my Leica IIIf with Visoflex on a tripod and follow the same drill. For some reason I find it even easier to focus on the plain ground glass of the Visoflex than on the matte glass of the Nikon.
Hence, if the image really matters I use my Leica IIIf with Visoflex on a tripod and follow the same drill. For some reason I find it even easier to focus on the plain ground glass of the Visoflex than on the matte glass of the Nikon.
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
Even at f/2.8, depth of field is pretty shallow for close portraiture. If you focus on the eyes and then recompose, it doesn’t take much camera movement before your subject’s eyes are no longer in tack-sharp focus like you want.
If all those tips don't help, you might try the K3 screen which originally shipped with the FM3a. I found it rather amazing when I put one into my FE2. 
shimokita
白黒
Using the proper diopter makes all the difference...
When I was looking for a -2 diopter for my Nikon F3P... the staff at the retail shop said that for the F3 High Point Finder you can also use a diopter from the F801, F100, and/or F90/F90s. I walked into a large camera shop in Tokyo picked up an F-801.N8008 eyepiece correction lens in the original box... it was on the shelf at a local Yodobashi store.
Could be that the FM2 diopters are compatible with other Nikon cameras. The official compatibility chart is linked here, although in the case of the F3 the list is incomplete... so check around.
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM9...PDF/Eyepiece_Compatibility_Chart_07012008.pdf
When I was looking for a -2 diopter for my Nikon F3P... the staff at the retail shop said that for the F3 High Point Finder you can also use a diopter from the F801, F100, and/or F90/F90s. I walked into a large camera shop in Tokyo picked up an F-801.N8008 eyepiece correction lens in the original box... it was on the shelf at a local Yodobashi store.
Could be that the FM2 diopters are compatible with other Nikon cameras. The official compatibility chart is linked here, although in the case of the F3 the list is incomplete... so check around.
https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM9...PDF/Eyepiece_Compatibility_Chart_07012008.pdf
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Finding a screen with a coarse grit will help you achieve more precise focus with fast lenses, but they get very dark at apertures smaller than f/2.8. This is why brighter screens don't show the accurate depth of field with fast lenses and are optimized for zooms with Max apertures of f/2.8 up to even f/5.6.
Phil Forrest
Phil Forrest
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The notes above are all helpful if there is a problem.
- Focusing screens: Original screens for the FM2 are the K2 (split image with encircling micro-risk)/B2 (plain matte field)/E2 (plain matte field with gridlines). (Nikon support page - screens available for FM2) I always found the K series screens to be annoyingly fussy with all the focusing aids that got in the way of my seeing the subject, and always replaced that with the E2 ... that way you can focus on the ENTIRE screen without the focusing aids getting in the way. This is supremely easy with an 85mm f/1.4 ...the focusing aids are NOT as accurate as the plain matte fresnel focusing screen surface. The K3/B3/E3 screens were the same but were introduced for the FM3a model with a smoother matte fresnel focusing surface ... because people liked that. I always found them harder to focus accurately with: the tooth of the E2 screen made the in-focus/out-of-focus transition clearer to my eyes. All of these are compatible/usable across all the FM2/FE2 etc models. I'd go get an E2 screen (easily available from Ebay for under $50).
- Technique: Then practice, practice, practice. I've found it (after 20+ years of using, beating on, pounding around with Nikon FM/FM2/FE2 cameras) very very unusual for the reflex mirror/focusing screen/focus plane alignment to go out of adjustment ... I mean, it never happened on any of the four bodies I had, some of which were bought ultra cheap and badly beaten by the previous owners. The 85/1.4 has extremely little if any focus shift from wide open to f/4 too, so the likelihood is that you're simply still learning how to focus it properly. It takes time, and you are going to spend some film learning focusing technique. Accept that and just get to work practicing.
* Remember that to run a couple of practice rolls through the camera, all you need to do is practice focusing and process the negatives. Cheap B&W film and process yourself ... $4 a roll. Study your results with a 10x loupe and see if you nail the focus.
Depth of Field: A typical portrait distance with an 85mm lens should be about 5 to 8 feet. At 7 foot distance and f/2.8, all you have is four inches of DoF: from DOFMaster ...
That's an awfully tight DOF to do portraits with, and is less than the typical distance from the tip of an adult man's nose to his ear lobe. Getting the eye in focus is critical, but a picture will look like it's out of focus if the nose and the ear lobe is out of focus even if the eye is sharp. f/4 nets you 6 inches, which is enough (barely); f/5.6 nets you 7.5 inches which is nice for that kind of work. Think about what you're trying to achieve, and use the lens opening that nets enough DoF to cover your important subject areas properly.
The hyper-thin DoF that is so vogue in portraits these days is generally speaking ugly to my eye. Too much out of focus... Better to have a little more in focus and actually have a sharp appearing subject. I almost never shoot portraits with openings wider than f/4 unless I'm simply constrained by light and exposure needs...
Good luck!
G
- Focusing screens: Original screens for the FM2 are the K2 (split image with encircling micro-risk)/B2 (plain matte field)/E2 (plain matte field with gridlines). (Nikon support page - screens available for FM2) I always found the K series screens to be annoyingly fussy with all the focusing aids that got in the way of my seeing the subject, and always replaced that with the E2 ... that way you can focus on the ENTIRE screen without the focusing aids getting in the way. This is supremely easy with an 85mm f/1.4 ...the focusing aids are NOT as accurate as the plain matte fresnel focusing screen surface. The K3/B3/E3 screens were the same but were introduced for the FM3a model with a smoother matte fresnel focusing surface ... because people liked that. I always found them harder to focus accurately with: the tooth of the E2 screen made the in-focus/out-of-focus transition clearer to my eyes. All of these are compatible/usable across all the FM2/FE2 etc models. I'd go get an E2 screen (easily available from Ebay for under $50).
- Technique: Then practice, practice, practice. I've found it (after 20+ years of using, beating on, pounding around with Nikon FM/FM2/FE2 cameras) very very unusual for the reflex mirror/focusing screen/focus plane alignment to go out of adjustment ... I mean, it never happened on any of the four bodies I had, some of which were bought ultra cheap and badly beaten by the previous owners. The 85/1.4 has extremely little if any focus shift from wide open to f/4 too, so the likelihood is that you're simply still learning how to focus it properly. It takes time, and you are going to spend some film learning focusing technique. Accept that and just get to work practicing.
* Remember that to run a couple of practice rolls through the camera, all you need to do is practice focusing and process the negatives. Cheap B&W film and process yourself ... $4 a roll. Study your results with a 10x loupe and see if you nail the focus.
Depth of Field: A typical portrait distance with an 85mm lens should be about 5 to 8 feet. At 7 foot distance and f/2.8, all you have is four inches of DoF: from DOFMaster ...
---
Subject distance 7 ft
Depth of field
Near limit 6.84 ft
Far limit 7.17 ft
Total 0.34 ft
In front of subject 0.16 ft (49%)
Behind subject 0.17 ft (51%)
Hyperfocal distance 279.6 ft
Circle of confusion 0.03 mm
---
Subject distance 7 ft
Depth of field
Near limit 6.84 ft
Far limit 7.17 ft
Total 0.34 ft
In front of subject 0.16 ft (49%)
Behind subject 0.17 ft (51%)
Hyperfocal distance 279.6 ft
Circle of confusion 0.03 mm
---
That's an awfully tight DOF to do portraits with, and is less than the typical distance from the tip of an adult man's nose to his ear lobe. Getting the eye in focus is critical, but a picture will look like it's out of focus if the nose and the ear lobe is out of focus even if the eye is sharp. f/4 nets you 6 inches, which is enough (barely); f/5.6 nets you 7.5 inches which is nice for that kind of work. Think about what you're trying to achieve, and use the lens opening that nets enough DoF to cover your important subject areas properly.
The hyper-thin DoF that is so vogue in portraits these days is generally speaking ugly to my eye. Too much out of focus... Better to have a little more in focus and actually have a sharp appearing subject. I almost never shoot portraits with openings wider than f/4 unless I'm simply constrained by light and exposure needs...
Good luck!
G
Danny D
Member
Thanks for the replies guys. I will test all these variables mentioned and try some of the things from this thread.
Dogman
Veteran
First thing to do is try shooting another lens on the camera. If you have another ƒ/1.4 lens, the better. Shoot wide open and also stopped down a little. If those photos are also a bit OOF, it's likely the camera is out of whack. Mirror, focus screen...even the entire mirror mechanism itself. It can happen. It happened to me once with a Nikon F. It also happened to an acquaintance of mine shooting an FM.
Once you confirm the camera is operating properly, then you can work on your technique as necessary.
Once you confirm the camera is operating properly, then you can work on your technique as necessary.
f.hayek
Well-known
Focus
Shift
Shift
Freakscene
Obscure member
I did mention focus shift, but if you’ve used the Nikkor 85/1.4 you’ll know the focus shifts but within the depth of field. This is a case of focus error, not focus shift.
Rachel. Nikkor 85/1.4, Neopan 400, Xtol 1+3
I prefer the Leica 80/1.4 but without the floating element it has more focus shift.
Marty