Nazi camera Fakes

Jocko said:
Absolutely Paul, but those cameras are sold as Nazi kitsch. To be honest, I have no problem with artifacts from that era. They are obviously of genuine historical significance. My objection lies in the disneyfied Nazism of these fakes, which turn a world tragedy into a bad-boy plaything. Above all, there is the simple fact that these are Soviet cameras. In the final analysis the Nazi project was stopped by a wall of 27,000,000 dead Soviet citizens. "Ironic" does not even approach the horrible absurdity of these wretched gee-gaws.

All the best, Ian
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Very good point Ian and one I hadn't thought of in all honesty :eek:


Paul
 
jonasv said:
Ash, what exactly are you implying? I don't quite understand your point, could you elaborate?

Are you connecting the crusades with anti-semitism? Not that that would be completely wrong but I think anti-arabism is a far more important subject when talking about the crusades!
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Jonas you didn't read my post correctly. I said the crusades - deaths in the east, AND anti-semitism to modern day. Maybe it was my grammar but I was trying to say the Crusades and death of eastern people are as barbaric as the Nazi-run genocide, and Christians (like any religion) cannot say they are whiter than white.

I'm digging myself more and more of a hole here, but I was making the link between the various historical events, not attacking one religion over another.
 
Ash said:
Jonas you didn't read my post correctly. I said the crusades - deaths in the east, AND anti-semitism to modern day. Maybe it was my grammar but I was trying to say the Crusades and death of eastern people are as barbaric as the Nazi-run genocide, and Christians (like any religion) cannot say they are whiter than white.

I'm digging myself more and more of a hole here, but I was making the link between the various historical events, not attacking one religion over another.
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No, no, that was not what I was implying at all, don't worry. Just curious what you mean about the products produced in Islamic countries. Arafat scarves, for example, make me believe we don't have to wait 50-100 years... But maybe I misunderstood.
 
Oh, and a (surprisingly little known) bit of history: on the first crusade the crusaders (mostly the poor mass) murdered thousands of jews in two or three days when travelling through German cities. I thought that you were referring to this when mentioning crusades and anti-semitism.
 
jonasv said:
Leica made gunsights, rangefinders and other optical tools for the german military, no? Technology extremely important for the German military. Another factory would have stepped in yes, but it would have cost time.

I'm not blaming Leitz for this, and I'm most certainly not telling anyone to feel guilty about owning a Leica, Volkswagen or what-not. But this whole picture of Leitz heroism is very one-sided to say the least.
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Jonas, you have to remember that from 1936 (at the latest) companies such as Leitz were effectively under direct state control. Nazi Germany was in no sense a free economy. The Leitz family acted in the only way they could - as simple human beings. They had absolutely no control over their factories' military production.

Cheers, Ian
 
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Jocko said:
Jonas, you have to remember that from 1936 (at the latest) companies such as Leitz were effectively under direct state control. Nazi Germany was in no sense a free economy. The Leitz family acted in the only way they could - as simple human beings. They had absolutely no control over their factories' military production.

Cheers, Ian
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A kind of save your own skin just following orders kind of thing. Funny how touchy some are on this. My point was at the beginning of this is that I collect cameras and I own one of this type because I collect cameras. If I collected knives I would own a Nazi Dagger along with buck knives. Gun collectors own Lugers. And as long as the world all of us included support China regardless of how good the product is we are supporting suppresion of a peoples freedom. For the record I am for freedom and not genocide anywhere. I have a tatto of a cross on my forarm it stands for my belief in christ not the support of all who died due to religous ignorance. I for one am glad people have strong feelings about this because as it was once said " those that forget history are doomed to repeat it". In closing I may have done whatever it takes to save my own skin too so I don't place blame on companies such as Leica. Hell wasnt it yamaha or Kalawsaki engines that bombed pearl harbor. {wink}
 
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jody said:
A kind of save your own skin just following orders kind of thing. Funny how touchy some are on this. My point was at the beginning of this is that I collect cameras and I own one of this type because I collect cameras. If I collected knives I would own a Nazi Dagger along with buck knives. Gun collectors own Lugers. And as long as the world all of us included support China regardless of how good the product is we are supporting suppresion of a peoples freedom. For the record I am for freedom and not genocide anywhere. I have a tatto of a cross on my forarm it stands for my belief in christ not the support of all who died due to religous ignorance. I for one am glad people have strong feelings about this because as it was once said " those that forget history are doomed to repeat it". In closing I may have done whatever it takes to save my own skin too so I don't place blame on companies such as Leica. Hell wasnt it yamaha engines that bombed pearl harbor. {wink}
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My grandfather will not use anything from Japan, and I have never been allowed to wear a black shirt (as in suit shirt) as fascists wore them. Call it family tradition if you like.
 
jody said:
A kind of save your own skin just following orders kind of thing. Funny how touchy some are on this.
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No Jody. I really regretted roasting you earlier and toned down my post. I now wonder if my concern was justified. However, if you had bothered to follow any of the links etc. suggested by Donald, you would have read that the Leitz family put themselves at enormous risk. They did not "just follow orders". They did the opposite.

Thank you for your interesting and coherant observations. I wish you the greatest joy.

All the best, Ian
 
Well maybe we're all going off here - the main concern (aside from the fear you could promote nazism by using the camera in public) is whether it works, and whether you like the camera - if the camera works well, keep your thumb over the swastika and there's not a problem ;)
 
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