Need 80mm Lens for 23C II enlarger

[Deleted member 65559]

Steve, I look forward to hearing more about the ongoing project. The Rolleiflex is a class act. There's just something about it....led me to sell off my Mamiya 6 & the big Fuji 6x8 & 6x9. No matter which lens or model you choose the character is something special.

 

[x-ray]

Thanks! Maybe this is a dumb question but how do I figure print size based on the len's magnification specification? My negatives are 2.25" x 2.25" so with a 15x magnification does that mean 33.75"? I see the APO Rodagon N 4/80 is 2-15 with 10 optimum and a Compono-S 4/80 is 2-20 6-10 optimum.

I found this data sheet linking to lens specification brochures. http://www.photocornucopia.com/1061.html

I found a Componon - S 4/80 for under $100 I'm thinking this maybe a good one to get my feet wet. After I work my way up to 40" size I can critique my work and see if I think I need an APO lens.

Do you have any 6 x 6 medium format glass carrier recommendations for my C23CII enlarger? I see they sold an optional glass medium format carrier as an accessory but they don't mention if it used anti newton glass.

You're correct, 15x is 33.75". Honestly I wouldn't be too worried about the results at 40" from any of the top lenses. Each manufacturers specs are derived from test on an optical bench more than practical tests. When it comes down to the final print you'll most likely not see any difference between any of these lenses including the Fuji EX and Nikkor EL.

As to carriers, I've not actively used Beseler enlargers since 1974. The best suggestion would be to just try what you have. If you see Newton rings you can buy antinewton glass. You only need one piece. Newton rings primarily occur where the base of the film touches or almost touches the glass. The emulsion side isn't usually an issue.

Another even better alternative to antinewton glass is optically coated glass. The coatings are much like on a lens and prevent interference / Newton rings from occurring. I used coated Schott glass in one of my Durst 138 carriers and never had an issue. I'll have to see if I have a source for it still. You might Google coated Schott glass for photography and see what comes up.

You might also check eBay or contact Beseler. I believe Beseler is still in business and may sell antinewton glass.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

You're correct, 15x is 33.75". Honestly I wouldn't be too worried about the results at 40" from any of the top lenses. Each manufacturers specs are derived from test on an optical bench more than practical tests. When it comes down to the final print you'll most likely not see any difference between any of these lenses including the Fuji EX and Nikkor EL.

As to carriers, I've not actively used Beseler enlargers since 1974. The best suggestion would be to just try what you have. If you see Newton rings you can buy antinewton glass. You only need one piece. Newton rings primarily occur where the base of the film touches or almost touches the glass. The emulsion side isn't usually an issue.

Another even better alternative to antinewton glass is optically coated glass. The coatings are much like on a lens and prevent interference / Newton rings from occurring. I used coated Schott glass in one of my Durst 138 carriers and never had an issue. I'll have to see if I have a source for it still. You might Google coated Schott glass for photography and see what comes up.

You might also check eBay or contact Beseler. I believe Beseler is still in business and may sell antinewton glass.

I'll try calling Beseler about the glass carrier. I didn't know they were still in business. I have a standard non glass Beseler 2-1/4" x 2 1/4". I threw it in last night with a clear negative that I drew an x on from corner to corner. Focusing on the center was very sharp however all lines got equally soft the closer to the edge I got and I was only working with 8 x 10" paper! I'm not sure if it was because the film was not flat or if the 75mm Rodenstock Omegar lens is that horrible.

I just purchase a Scheinder Componon-S 4/80 so I'm anxious to see how much better it will be with the same test. I may have to cobble something together for the glass carrier. I can see the neg is definitely not laying perfectly flat.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

Steve, I look forward to hearing more about the ongoing project. The Rolleiflex is a class act. There's just something about it....led me to sell off my Mamiya 6 & the big Fuji 6x8 & 6x9. No matter which lens or model you choose the character is something special.

Wow nice to hear your so happy with the Rolleiflexs! Other than all the test rolls I shot, mainly for focus testing. I have only shot several regular rolls, so I have much to discover. I originally was going to do everything digitally, and print on my new Canon inkjet. However I only had room for the 17 x 22 model and thought going back to darkroom printing would be a way I can get much bigger prints!

 

[sepiareverb]

There is a 6x9cm glass carrier for the 23C, don’t believe any others were made.

Keep your eyes out on eBay for lenses, bargains appear regularly, and I’ve gotten most of my enlarging lenses via best offers decently below the asking price. They simply don’t move.

The 80 Nikkor is much better than the 75 in my experience with several examples of both while I taught in a place with a big lab. I’ve settled on Componon-S for most everything I print, all found at a tiny fraction of what they went for new. Patience is key.

Alignment with the Beselers can be a challenge. I would suggest rubber washers for the lens stage side to side adjustment, and be sure the nylon gears On the chassis are in perfect condition. The rebuild kit is a worthwhile investment if gears seem at all worn. Granted most of my experience with the 23C is with heavily used gang darkroom machines, but I have rebuilt about 20 of them over the 15 years I taught, and was the only one who would align them. Shims for the frame/baseboard connection can also help getting things dead on, the weak link on later machines is the lack of adjustment to the negative stage side to side, where a weld replaced a nut and bolt connection.

Alignment is slow to achieve sometimes, the laser alignment tool is a boon for this task.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

There is a 6x9cm glass carrier for the 23C, don’t believe any others were made.

Keep your eyes out on eBay for lenses, bargains appear regularly, and I’ve gotten most of my enlarging lenses via best offers decently below the asking price. They simply don’t move.

The 80 Nikkor is much better than the 75 in my experience with several examples of both while I taught in a place with a big lab. I’ve settled on Componon-S for most everything I print, all found at a tiny fraction of what they went for new. Patience is key.

Alignment with the Beselers can be a challenge. I would suggest rubber washers for the lens stage side to side adjustment, and be sure the nylon gears On the chassis are in perfect condition. The rebuild kit is a worthwhile investment if gears seem at all worn. Granted most of my experience with the 23C is with heavily used gang darkroom machines, but I have rebuilt about 20 of them over the 15 years I taught, and was the only one who would align them. Shims for the frame/baseboard connection can also help getting things dead on, the weak link on later machines is the lack of adjustment to the negative stage side to side, where a weld replaced a nut and bolt connection.

Alignment is slow to achieve sometimes, the laser alignment tool is a boon for this task.

I received the user manual and it says there is an item called Negatrans 0987 that is for 2 1/4" x 2 1/4" and has pressure glass. So far I haven't found any aftermarket glass carriers.

I purchased a Componon-S 4/80 yesterday.

Why are you suggesting rubber washers and were exactly do they need to be installed? The tightener for the lens board tilt has a thick metal washer under the knurled tightener. Speaking of the lens board holder it appears to be fixed in position to the negative carrier so the only alignment is for tilting. Also I can wiggle the lens board in one of the corners so ill have to figure out what's going on there. The metal rail teeth and plastic teeth are in perfect condition. But after locking the head height I can wiggle the head if to grab the rail and head assembly and pull forward and push backward. I don't think it's due to bad plastic rollers but a bad design. Looking at all these things leads me to believe this was not a high end enlarger but I hope with some adjustment and careful operation I can use it for my large format project.

 

[sepiareverb]

The Negatrans might be a tough one to find, but don't rule out finding one, have you contacted KHB? Great folks to deal with, very knowledgable, but they don't seem to have a lot of stock for Beseler. They might be able to point you to a good source.

B&H lists the Beseler Universal Glass Negative Carrier for 23C Series Enlargers (for Film Up To 6x9"cm) as a Special order item, but $225, ouch.

You might find some shims for the lens board in order to help with the movement. I've shimmed with pieces of cardstock most often.

The rubber washers are helpful in keeping the side to side action of the lens stage from moving, which for some reason can develop a good bit of slop.

The washers are for the knurled screw at the bottom. There should be a washer on either side of the plate the screw goes through.

The Componon should serve you well. There is also a Wide Angle series, which might be necessary if you don't have the XL chassis. Just realizing how big you are going, the humidity here last night addled my brain a touch.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

The Negatrans might be a tough one to find, but don't rule out finding one, have you contacted KHB? Great folks to deal with, very knowledgable, but they don't seem to have a lot of stock for Beseler. They might be able to point you to a good source.

B&H lists the Beseler Universal Glass Negative Carrier for 23C Series Enlargers (for Film Up To 6x9"cm) as a Special order item, but $225, ouch.

You might find some shims for the lens board in order to help with the movement. I've shimmed with pieces of cardstock most often.

The rubber washers are helpful in keeping the side to side action of the lens stage from moving, which for some reason can develop a good bit of slop.

The washers are for the knurled screw at the bottom. There should be a washer on either side of the plate the screw goes through.

The Componon should serve you well. There is also a Wide Angle series, which might be necessary if you don't have the XL chassis. Just realizing how big you are going, the humidity here last night addled my brain a touch.

I have found a few on eBay but there seems to be a few versions so I emailed Beseler to get the scoop. I have also entertained the thought of using my Beseler glassless carrier and attach glass to it. The only way I can think of holding it in place without losing any image would be to glue two pieces of glass together. the top piece being larger so it can be glued to the carrier. That may open a whole new can of worms so I think I'll go for the Negtrans carrier even if I have to replace the o ring and glass. I also like the idea of not having to remove the carrier to load my negatives.

Thanks for the photo for washer placement.

I wish I had the XL model. It would have been nice for my anticipated largest sheet size of 20" x 24" I'm hoping I can make that size work on my standard model. I'm thinking if I make the easel out of hinged mat board and make the image size 17.5" x 17.5" it may work. After I'm satisfied with that size I'll move on to projection and roll stock.

While I'm waiting for my lens to arrive I'm trying to figure out if I can use either of my two lens boards. One has a El Nikkor 50mm and the other has the Rodenstock pictured in my opening post. I have no idea what the extender is for. Also it looks like your lens board is recessed a bit. The document here shows the thread size but I don't kno how to interpret it. http://www.photocornucopia.com/archive/75/vergroesserung_e.pdf

FWIW I don't need humidity for addled brain. I get that all the time.

 

[sepiareverb]

The Nikon and the Componon will use the same ring and board. That snoot would allow closer focus with the 75, so smaller prints could be made. IIRC the Omegars are smaller than 39mm threads, the current standard for most all enlarging lenses up to 150mm.

Not my pic, I grabbed it from a google search. Should have noted that I guess.

I'm on a Zone VI hacked with a Keinzle head for 8x10 and an LPL4500 for everything else. The lab I maintain has about 12 23Cs in every imaginable configuration, like a Beseler museum.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

The Nikon and the Componon will use the same ring and board. That snoot would allow closer focus with the 75, so smaller prints could be made. IIRC the Omegars are smaller than 39mm threads, the current standard for most all enlarging lenses up to 150mm.

Not my pic, I grabbed it from a google search. Should have noted that I guess.

I'm on a Zone VI hacked with a Keinzle head for 8x10 and an LPL4500 for everything else. The lab I maintain has about 12 23Cs in every imaginable configuration, like a Beseler museum.

That's great, I'll be able to use the new lens right away then.

Looks like you have some quality enlargers. What's the name of the lab you maintain?

 

[sepiareverb]

It’s at Northern Vermont University, the Lyndon campus. May start working on the Johnson machines as well as a former colleague is beginning to work at both places this fall.