Need a new printer -- advice please?

[Bingley]

My Canon inkjet printer (i550) is on its last legs and needs to be replaced. I'd like to use the opportunity to take a further step in setting up a digital darkroom, but also need the printer to be able to print documents too.

So -- I'm looking for an inkjet printer that can produce quality color and bw prints as well as print documents, but don't want to go much over $500 on the purchase price. Most prints would be 8x10, occasionally 11x14.

Any suggestions, advice, or recommendations? In particular, I'd be interested to know what people think of the Epson 1400, Epson 1800, or HP 8750. Would any of these be suitable, or would these be overkill given my needs?

 

[RayPA]

Hi Steve,
If you're looking to take a step further toward a digital darkroom, then I think you're looking at a dedicated photo printer, really. Get a good photo printed and a cheap office printer.

 

[Bingley]

Thanks, Ray. As you can tell, I'm a newbie on this. Assuming I get a dedicated photo printer, though, any recommendations or advice given the price range?

 

[mfunnell]

Its outside your stated price range, but I've recently "semi-retired" my Canon i560 into the role of office and document printer (and the occasional 6x4 photo) and bought a Canon Pro9500 - which I'm very happy with. (I looked longingly at the Epson 3800 but couldn't go there on price. Epson's smaller offerings haven't been updated in a while and didn't fit my criteria quite so well.)

I've had excellent results from the Pro9500 (after a fairly steep learning curve). Its a few hundred $US more than you've said but offers quite a lot if you can go there on price. My only real complaints are how long it took from product announcement to shipping (no longer an issue) and how few paper manufacturers supply ICC profiles for it (Ilford being a shining exception; but I imagine this will change over time).

...Mike

 

[wray]

The HP8750 is your best bet - but I don't think you can find it for $500. For less than $500 I'd go for the Canon Pixma Pro 9000. It will do greyscale albeit slowly. The 9000 goes for $399 at Adorama. With a $100 rebate from Canon the final cost is $299. Now that's a deal for an 8 ink printer. I own an Epson R1800 and it's not the best for b&w - can you say bronzing and metamerism.

 

[Bob Michaels]

The Epson 2400 is one of the most popular photo printers for good reasons. The Epson refurbished ones are as good as new (most are new) and available direct from Epson for $599 including shipping. Now that is $99 over your budget but that will get you a printer that will never hold you back.

You can use the 2400 as an office printer or simply buy a cheap printer for way under $100 to serve that purpose.

 

[benmacphoto]

The Epson line are wonderful printers, Ive used the 3800, 4000, 4800, 7600, and 9800. Though I have not used the 2400 I would imagine it to be similar to the 3800, which is my new favorite printer for sheet paper. Id recommend the 2400 over the 1400 or the 1800 because the 2400 has 3 black inks rather than the 1400's or 1800's 1. So it will produce better black and white tones, and for under $800 it is a very good deal. Best of luck.

 

[RayPA]

Thanks, Ray. As you can tell, I'm a newbie on this. Assuming I get a dedicated photo printer, though, any recommendations or advice given the price range?

It depends on what you wanted to do. I've got a dedicated Epson 2200 w/MIS b&w inks. It's a dedicated b&w printer at this point. I like it a lot (although, recently my densities have slipped out ). If you're interested in something like this then check out some of the ink suppliers (e.g., inksupply.com/) and see which printers they support (work backwards from there to your price range [new and used]). I don't know printer models really, but I favor Epson. I've been looking at the 2400 and the 3800, both fairly pricey.



NOTE: the 2400 has a $100 rebate right now.

 

[Bingley]

Thanks all. I need to keep the purchase price w/in the budget, so the Epson 2400 is out of reach for me.

@Wray -- Thanks for the suggestion on the Canon Pixma Pro 9000. It sounds interesting, particularly w/ the rebate. Slow greyscale printing is probably not a big issue for me at this early stage. On the HP 8750, B&H's latest catalogue advertises it for $499.00. But for someone easing into this, I wonder whether the Canon wouldn't be a better choice...

@Ray -- That's a good suggestion to work back from the inks, which means I'll have to do some further investigating.

Would the Canon or HP printers work equally well with color? Most of my photography is color at present.

 

[RayPA]

Steve,

I think the new Epson ultrachrome K3 inks are supposed to be really good, for both color and b&w. If I were to get a 2400 or a 3800 with the extra cartridges and K3 inks, I don't know that I would go with third party b&w inks.

anyone here using the new Epson ink?


ray

 

[mfunnell]

Would the Canon or HP printers work equally well with color? Most of my photography is color at present.

I think each of the manufacturers would argue that their ink is the best I'm convinced that all are good but the big choice, for colour, is whether to go with dye-based or pigment-based inks. If you want lots of "punch" on high-gloss paper then dye-based inks are probably best (although the aesthetics of lots of super-saturated colour can, and no doubt will be, argued from all sorts of angles). At the present state of the art, as I see it, you might go for dye-based inks if you want to use high-gloss media for colour printing. What you lose (compared to pigment inks) is resistance to fading and colour shifts, reducing the overall life of the print. That may or may not concern you. The other trade-off is a reduced ability to get good results on matte-surface / fine art papers, where pigment inks seem to perform better.

As you can guess, the trade-offs for pigment inks are the inverse: better print life, better on matte papers, not-so-good on high-gloss paper.

The only other thing to consider here is that, according to reports I heard somewhere but can't place, Epson has abandoned further serious R&D into dye-based inks preferring to concentrate on their long-standing market advantage in pigment inks. Canon is pushing ahead on both the dye and pigment front (their "Chromalife" dye inks are said to be long-lasting). I'm not quite sure where HP sits in this.

...Mike

 

[Bingley]

I think each of the manufacturers would argue that their ink is the best I'm convinced that all are good but the big choice, for colour, is whether to go with dye-based or pigment-based inks. If you want lots of "punch" on high-gloss paper then dye-based inks are probably best (although the aesthetics of lots of super-saturated colour can, and no doubt will be, argued from all sorts of angles). At the present state of the art, as I see it, you might go for dye-based inks if you want to use high-gloss media for colour printing. What you lose (compared to pigment inks) is resistance to fading and colour shifts, reducing the overall life of the print. That may or may not concern you. The other trade-off is a reduced ability to get good results on matte-surface / fine art papers, where pigment inks seem to perform better.

As you can guess, the trade-offs for pigment inks are the inverse: better print life, better on matte papers, not-so-good on high-gloss paper.

Mike -- Thanks much. I think I will want to experiment w/ both pigment- and dye-based inks, as well as different kinds of paper, so a printer that can handle both is of great interest.

 

[mfunnell]

Mike -- Thanks much. I think I will want to experiment w/ both pigment- and dye-based inks, as well as different kinds of paper, so a printer that can handle both is of great interest.

I'm not sure that anyone makes printers for both dye and pigment ink. You pretty much make your choice when you buy your printer. Pigment inks dominate in the larger "pro" end of the market, with dye inks mostly (only?) available in A3+ (13"x19") and smaller. That A3+ size seems to be the "crossover point" between the classes of printer.

...Mike

 

[Pablito]

Mike -- Thanks much. I think I will want to experiment w/ both pigment- and dye-based inks, as well as different kinds of paper, so a printer that can handle both is of great interest.

Printers use either dye based inks or pigment based inks, no printer I know of can use both. Unless there is something new out there that I don't know about.

I would use only the inks manufactured by the printer manufacturer. Others tend to give trouble. Another thing worth considering is whether the print heads can be replaced on a printer. Every inkjet printer I have ever had (about 8 of them from different manufacturers) has ultimately died because of a clogged print head that would not open up no matter how many "deep cleaning" print head cleaning cycles you performed. Except the Epson 4000 which just keeps on truckin'

 

[RayPA]

Yep. I have the 3800 and the K3 inks. The 3800 is a great printer. The news inks are the best yet. Yeah, a set of ink cartridges will set you back $400, but they have a lot of ink so the cost per print goes down over the smaller printers.

If you can justify the cost, don't hesitate to get this printer. I've used Epson printers since the 1270, and the 3800 is the best yet.

are you're doing both b&w and color with the K3 inks?

.

 

[Red Rock Bill]

I'll have to agree...get the 2400 or 3800 Epson and don't look back...I just gave my 1280 to a friend (a very decent printer by the way) and have been working with my Epson 3800 with the K3 inks...I'm amazed at the b/w and the color is unbeatable........My friend has an Epson 2400 ..same inks....if you print small that's the way to go.... save for awhile longer... do whatever you have to do.....Oh and by the way if you really want to have a good time sell your soul for an Epson 7880 another friend printed his first print yesterday...holy smoke...now that's a printer...regards,Bill

 

[ampguy]

We go through printers faster than digicams. If you can live with 8x10, get an Epson R380 for $85 from buy.com. I think the R1800 and R2400 is about 5-10 year old technology.

 

[mfunnell]

I think the R1800 and R2400 is about 5-10 year old technology.

The matte versus photo black ink thing was what inclined me against these and favourably towards the Canon (that and more general ink consumption issues). I couldn't tell you if these Epson printers produce better-looking prints than the Canon. I can tell you that my Canon Pro9500 produces very fine looking prints.

But if I'd had the extra dollars for the Epson 3800, it would have been a very different story, as would a release of a smaller Epson with the same technology during the long, long wait between the Canon being announced and available for sale.

...Mike

 

[Bingley]

Thanks. Good suggestions above, although the selection process is not getting easier...

This printer purchase would mark my initial foray into ink jet printing of photos. I want a decent printer to learn on, and to discover what I really want in a print. In time, an upgrade will likely be in order.

The Epson R380 suggestion is intriguing. This printer uses Claria Hi-Definition ink. Am I correct in assuming this is an older line of (dye-based) inks?

Are K3 inks an Epson product? Are these pigment- or dye-based? How are these different from HP's Vivera inks?

Again, please pardon the newbie questions... Thanks!

 

[ampguy]

older versus what?

older versus what?

older inks compared to what?

They make prints that last for 200 years. Is there something newer that lasts longer??

Thanks. Good suggestions above, although the selection process is not getting easier...

This printer purchase would mark my initial foray into ink jet printing of photos. I want a decent printer to learn on, and to discover what I really want in a print. In time, an upgrade will likely be in order.

The Epson R380 suggestion is intriguing. This printer uses Claria Hi-Definition ink. Am I correct in assuming this is an older line of (dye-based) inks?

Are K3 inks an Epson product? Are these pigment- or dye-based? How are these different from HP's Vivera inks?

Again, please pardon the newbie questions... Thanks!