Need halp with my B/W workflow -- vertical streaking/banding issue

SayCheese

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Hi guys,

i think i've really come to a point where i need some serious help. I get some vertical streaks on many of my scans, especially in denser areas of the negative just like sky etc.
I tried several modifications to my workflow, but until now i can't figure out whats happening. So i'll just describe my workflow and what i tried, maybe someone of you has an idea.

First, this is what I'm complaining about:
KR_2013_Film_18_Exp_02.jpg


It's actually a scan of the whole 35mm negative (landscape orientation), i just cropped out the person on the right, thus giving it a 1:1 aspect ratio. Those bands or slightly darker areas running from the top all the way down to the bottom of the negative are also to be found in many of my images here in the RFF-Gallery. They are very prominent especially in thumbnail view.

The phenomenon first occured some 2 years ago when i used TriX with Rodinal. After that I changed developers (first Atomal, now XTol 1:1). I tried to reduce my agitation which had been very strong (now 30Sek slow continous inversion followed by 2 gentle inversions / 5-6 Sek every 30Sek). I even tried stand development, but scans still show this pattern.

At some point i thought i had tracked it down to bad fixer, as the negatives had not completely cleared and showed a similar pattern of remaining emulsion. But after i fixed the same film with new fixer (negatives now look completely clear), the banding remains to be seen on the scans. For the time being i use my fixer as one-shot, to avoid a similar experience.

I thought about chemical contamination and cleaned my reels and canisters to no avail.

I used Silverfast and changed back to the original scanner software on two different computers, but i still get the same dreaded banding.

When i look at the negatives on a light table, they look completely OK to me. No density differences or vertical lining pattern in the sky. So I thought it was a scanning issue, but when i scanned some C41-film, which had been processed in a professional lab, i had no problems in the sky areas of the image.

Needless to say i'm a bit frustrated. More than that, i don't know what to try next. More agitation? Even less? Try another scanner? Shoot digital in the first place?
Thanks for reading this lenthy post. Feel free to ask me if i've left something out. Every contribution ist greatly apreciated, so please give me a hint if you think you know whats going on.

Regards, Kaus
 
Well, at first glance i thought so. It's hard to verify, because the streaks are invisible on the negative itself and the sprocket holes are beyond the scanning area. The number of streaks (9) roughly corresponds with the number of sprocket holes (7-8) covering the length of the negative, but judging by eye, i dont think the beginning or ending of each streak are exactly matching with the holes.
 
More agitation. Actually, more frequent agitation but less agitation time.
Looks like bromide drag if they line up with the sprocket holes, and from the look of those marks, they probably do.

Phil Forrest
 
Wow, thanks so far!
What do you mean by "more frequent agitation, less agitation time"?
My procedure is as follows: pour developer in->agitate for 30s continously. One inversion takes roughly 1s, then i flip the tank back, which takes another second and so on. After 30s i knock the tank on the table twice. Let stand for 30s. Then, every 30s i turn the tank on its head and back two times, which takes ca. 5s, knock-knock, stand and so on. Between the inversions i randomly turn the tank around its axis, so that the inversions are not all in the same direction.
Do you recommend a longer initial agitation? I mean, more frequent than every 30s would result in nearly continous agitation, wouldn't it?
 
... I find I get more consistent results by oscillating the reels rather than inverting, I bang the tank at the start then twiddle the spindle following the instructions and times in the data sheet ... but then I have clean, soft water here which seems to help
 
I had this banding on my B&W films stand developed in rodinal (R09). After a few gentle slow inversions for the first 30 seconds I had let it stand for the rest of the hour. It took me a while to notice that and then I added a gentle inversion every ten minutes to eliminate it. So far I cannot see any banding on my developed negatives.
 
1) Your development process seems fine. Just exclude stand-developed negatives when you continue your RCA.

2) The banding is pronounced enough that you should see it on the light table - you don't.

3) There are other reports on your scanner (Reflecta CrystalScan 7200 ?) causing banding (for example, http://ventillo.wordpress.com/2010/11/26/reflecta-rps-7200-problem-solved). Try to eliminate that as a source first (use another scanner on the same negative as shown above).

Roland.
 
I forgot to mention two things: i use Jobo tanks w/ plastic reels and distilled water for all chemicals.

@Murray Kelly: The problem occurred in at least two cameras, and both were affected only with 400 seed b/w film. I haven't seen it on 100 speed film, but then i haven't shot this stock for a while.

@Nikos 72: I tried Rodinal stand development only once, and since then have avoided this process for several reasons.

@ferider: i read about that issue, but i thought only the Proscan 7200 was affected by this? Anyway, i'll give it a try with all USB devices disconnected tonight.

Regards, Klaus
 
Anyway, i'll give it a try with all USB devices disconnected tonight.

Well, it's still the same with USB and WLAN disconnected. Would have neen to easy a fix, wouldn't it?
So i think i'm going to mix a fresh batch of developer and try 6-8s agitation every 30s.
Maybe i can even get hold of some extension tubes for my DSLR, so that i can take a picture if the negative on the light table. This way i could exclude the scanner from being the cause of my problems.
Thanks to everyone so far!
Klaus
 
(Problem solved) Need help with my B/W workflow -- vertical streaking/banding issue

(Problem solved) Need help with my B/W workflow -- vertical streaking/banding issue

Just for the records: I think I've sorted it out, thanks again to everyone involved!

Since my last post, I've taken a slightly different route. I found a public darkroom in my neighbourhood (thanks to http://www.darkroomlocator.com/) and printed some of the problematic negatives. Besides meeting some really nice fellow photographers, I was very pleased to find out that none of the banding appears on the wet prints. I tried different grades and exposures, so far the prints look fine.

So, is my scanner defunct? I'm still not fully convinced that it's solely a hardware issue. It may be that there are defects on the negatives that are vastly exagerated by my scanning workflow, while not being recognisable on a wet print.
My negatives seem to be rather low contrast, since I regularly have to use Grade 3,5 and more for decent blacks. So I'm going to follow the recommendation above and agitate vigorously in the future.

For the time being, I no longer trust my scanner though, so I guess I'll be wet printing a lot in the future! 😀

Regards, Klaus
 
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