Need help! - Advanced horizontal focus adjustment on M2 RF

[fathom]

Hi!

I dropped my m2, so beamsplitter and etc came loose from glue.
I re-glued everything sucessfully, but when I got m2 back together vertical and horizontal alignment were off.
Vertical was easy, just turn of the screw from front.
But horizontal is way off. It shows closest around 0.3m and longest maybe 3-4m. Can't reach infinity. So turning eccentric screw will not do.
So I took it to parts again and now is the question which screws should I turn to align horizontal alignment also.

Thank you guys!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I dropped M4-2, same service was needed, but I was lucky to have Leica technician nearby back then...

In your case, was it repair attempt without reading of manual? Or have you consult with it already:
http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica_m2_service.pdf

 

[fathom]

I don't have technician nearby, that's why I'm doing it myself. I read manual and posts where few people in internet have done this repair also. But couldn't find any information about advanced horizontal adjustment.

Vertical is spot on.
If i could fix horizontal also I could go finally out and shoot 🙂)

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Hi!

I dropped my m2, so beamsplitter and etc came loose from glue.
I re-glued everything sucessfully, but when I got m2 back together vertical and horizontal alignment were off.
Vertical was easy, just turn of the screw from front.
But horizontal is way off. It shows closest around 0.3m and longest maybe 3-4m. Can't reach infinity. So turning eccentric screw will not do.
So I took it to parts again and now is the question which screws should I turn to align horizontal alignment also.

Thank you guys!

Hi,
I've not worked on an M2 (or any Leica, not to be inflammatory, but I prefer Contax) however I have successfully set and adjusted a number of other rangefinders, usually, but not always, German ones.

The adjustment range of a typical rangefinder system is going to be fairly limited, depending, perhaps, on how many different adjustments are built into a particular system. Some have more than one adjustment point for vertical or horizontal, which may have greater or lesser effect, or even, an effect at different parts of the focus range. Regardless there will always be limits to the amount of adjustment that's possible. This is because when assembled the various components are going to be within tolerance and set up well within their adjustment range so that the fine RF adjustments achieve good calibration.

Based on what you've told us there are probably a couple of possible reasons for your problem. One, as a result of the impact one or more system components have been damaged or moved out of their pre-set adjustment range. Two, when you glued the beamsplitter back into place you got the vertical adjustment good but the horizontal adjustment is far enough off that bringing the patch into calibration is impossible with the usual adjustments as they do not have the scope needed to rectify the misalignment (and are not intended to).

By all means re-check every system adjustment carefully in case one of them has moved and can be brought back into range. But be prepared to consider the possibility that you may have to remove the beamsplitter or any other parts you re-attached, and do a trial assembly in order to get their basic position(s) within a close enough range for the normal adjustments to achieve correct calibration, before permanently re-attaching them in position.
Cheers,
Brett

 

[shiosaki]

Hi!

I dropped my m2, so beamsplitter and etc came loose from glue.
I re-glued everything sucessfully, but when I got m2 back together vertical and horizontal alignment were off.
Vertical was easy, just turn of the screw from front.
But horizontal is way off. It shows closest around 0.3m and longest maybe 3-4m. Can't reach infinity. So turning eccentric screw will not do.
So I took it to parts again and now is the question which screws should I turn to align horizontal alignment also.

Thank you guys!

this will help

http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica basic repair.pdf

 

[fathom]

It told me about three adjustment screws that are for micro adjusting. (infinity and 10. overtravel and one meter.
But like I sayd my problem is bigger. I can focus from 0.3meters to 3-4m. I need to change that somehow to 0.8 to infinity.
Maybe I should remove rangefinder arm and change its position?

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Personally I suspect you've stuffed up the angular relationship of the patch when you re-attached the loose parts. I said as much in my previous response. I don't mind trying to assist owners with their cameras problems (actually, I genuinely *like* to help, if I can) but I freely acknowledge, I find it frustrating at best when advice is requested and it's simply ignored.🙁

Rather than correct the actual fault, you're talking about adjusting other components which, if they were correctly set before you dropped the camera, shouldn't be adjusted now, if they weren't affected by the impact.

You've got a *massive* deviation from correct accuracy. It's clearly well outside the scope of ordinary adjustment. Ask yourself why that might be the case—my suggested possibilities are probably *not* what you want to hear but that makes them no less likely (examining and interpreting the information, logically). I mean, what are you trying to do here? Repair the damage competently, or make half arsed adjustments which, even if they work at all, will never be optimal? Much as it pains this Contax-purist enthusiast to admit it—the M rangefinder system is a precision optical installation. You can either fix it right or **** it up. There is no middle ground. If you're not prepared to do it right, pack the camera in a box and post it to someone who is.

 

[fathom]

Hi! I appreciate your help, I really do. I just hoped there would be better option than playing with glue again. You are probably right and I need to re-check my work.
Sounds logical.
Thanks!

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Hi! I appreciate your help, I really do. I just hoped there would be better option than playing with glue again. You are probably right and I need to re-check my work.
Sounds logical.
Thanks!

No probs at all. Obviously, it's impossible for me to be definitive from afar, but given the drastic calibration error involved, and the fact that you've had to re-install some of the RF optics, incorrect placement of the parts has to be a candidate, logically, because there's a significant deviation, and those items have been worked on. The standard adjustments are only going to cover a fairly limited range. So if the system is not "in the ballpark" to begin with, you just won't be able to adjust it in, you see.

Hindsight is all very well but it would have been great if you had posted prior to re-attaching the loose part(s). I would have strongly suggested a trial assembly to get things positioned close to ideal—you could then be confident that once secured permanently, the RF calibration could he achieved well within the scope of system adjustments. I hope that all makes sense?

I'd suggest carefully checking all parts of the system, if you don't believe any other components have been knocked out of range then, yes, I think you will have to revisit your repairs. But I then recommend proceeding as above and experimenting with the precise position of any parts that were detached, with a view to permanently attaching them as close as possible to an accurate infinity focus. Given that, fine tuning to excellent alignment should be readily achieved.

Keep us posted!
Cheers
Brett

 

[Deklari]

Hi!

I dropped my m2, so beamsplitter and etc came loose from glue.
I re-glued everything sucessfully, but when I got m2 back together vertical and horizontal alignment were off.
Vertical was easy, just turn of the screw from front.
But horizontal is way off. It shows closest around 0.3m and longest maybe 3-4m. Can't reach infinity. So turning eccentric screw will not do.
So I took it to parts again and now is the question which screws should I turn to align horizontal alignment also.

Thank you guys!

Hi

I have done this on my M3. First test if your camera rangefinder arm move to infinity. Just look on object at 3m and press on arm (without lens) all way down, did horizontal focus "pass" 3m or it stop at 3m in the end? If it stop at 3m you need check you prism or beamsplitter angle and try again. Unfortunately (or fotunatly for M2) M3 has 3 type rangefinders, all has different components. But it clear your optical path what moving with arm, loosing alignment. It could be mechanical deformation or your re-installation.

Also check if optical movement parts in rangefinder "move" to infinity.

 

[Deklari]

Hi,
I've not worked on an M2 (or any Leica, not to be inflammatory, but I prefer Contax) however I have successfully set and adjusted a number of other rangefinders, usually, but not always, German ones.

The adjustment range of a typical rangefinder system is going to be fairly limited, depending, perhaps, on how many different adjustments are built into a particular system. Some have more than one adjustment point for vertical or horizontal, which may have greater or lesser effect, or even, an effect at different parts of the focus range. Regardless there will always be limits to the amount of adjustment that's possible. This is because when assembled the various components are going to be within tolerance and set up well within their adjustment range so that the fine RF adjustments achieve good calibration.

Based on what you've told us there are probably a couple of possible reasons for your problem. One, as a result of the impact one or more system components have been damaged or moved out of their pre-set adjustment range. Two, when you glued the beamsplitter back into place you got the vertical adjustment good but the horizontal adjustment is far enough off that bringing the patch into calibration is impossible with the usual adjustments as they do not have the scope needed to rectify the misalignment (and are not intended to).

By all means re-check every system adjustment carefully in case one of them has moved and can be brought back into range. But be prepared to consider the possibility that you may have to remove the beamsplitter or any other parts you re-attached, and do a trial assembly in order to get their basic position(s) within a close enough range for the normal adjustments to achieve correct calibration, before permanently re-attaching them in position.
Cheers,
Brett

Good suggestions. Fully agree.