Need help with Kiev 4a

[mravigna]

I have a Kiev 4a (1972) with the leather skin and the camera is in very good shape. Shutter works fine but the rangefinder mechanism doesn't work. Nothing happens when I rotate the lens except for the occasional click when I first start rotating the lens. Can anyone tell me where I can find instructions on how to fix this? Is this very complicated? If so , is it worth having it fixed? I paid 28 dollars for the camera and it came with a Jupiter 8m.

Thanks for everyone's help with this.

 

[wolves3012]

Have a look on the excellent Kiev survival site:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html
There are pages there that explain how it works and how to get at the mechanism. Having calibrated and cleaned and lubed mine, I can tell you it's not the easiest task. You need to remove the VF/RF prism to get at the mechanics, be very careful with it since it would be very easy to damage. Good luck! There are worse jobs...if you're a reasonable DIY-er and read and follow the instructions carefully it's quite do-able.

 

[ruben]

My hitch is that an arm, connecting the distance movement from either the lens mount or the small wheel, to the rangefinder mooving glass, has jumped out of place. The reason for this jump is that the arm was slightly bended beforehand.

This arm is called by Russ (Kiev Survival Site) "the worm". If this is the case indeed, you will have to straight the worm a bit and perform a new full rangefinder distance calibration.

This takes time and patience. It is not complicated but rather you need to train yourself in adjusting some elements with very light hands.

But the good news is that it is quite feasible, nothing has been broken. The second good news is that every newly purchased Kiev needs a new rf calibration from its new owner, if rf accuracy is desired. It is precisely because Kievs rf calibration takes time, that most of them are sold without. The jump of the worm is a very unimportant detail in this context.

Go along the KSS. In contrast to other technical sites, the KSS is full of pictured detailed info - diggest it with patience. For any problem in understanding the KSS we are here to help.

Cheers and good luck,
Ruben

 

[mravigna]

thanks Ruben - I did look at the Kiev Survival Guide

thanks Ruben - I did look at the Kiev Survival Guide

After looking at the survival guide I noticed this arm also and that is probably the problem. The guide doesn't show you how to remove every part to access this arm. It shows us how to remove the top and the front covers, but even after having removed the top or the front you still don't have access to the full rangefinder mechanism. There seems to be a step missing.

 

[ruben]

Have you given a look to this page ?

http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/adjust rangefinder.html

Notice there the first pict, part no. 3 showing the extreme of the worm driven by a pin. I meant that this extreme lost contact with the pin for being the whole worm slightly bended.

Now take into account this is my hitch only, and you still have to open your camerak, look and investigate.


Cheers,
Ruben

 

[nzeeman]

After looking at the survival guide I noticed this arm also and that is probably the problem. The guide doesn't show you how to remove every part to access this arm. It shows us how to remove the top and the front covers, but even after having removed the top or the front you still don't have access to the full rangefinder mechanism. There seems to be a step missing.

when you remove the top you need to remove the whole mechanism.
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/shutter assembly removal.html

now you do "not simple method" http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/adjust rangefinder.html

im not very skillful but i did that to my kiev and i didnt destroy it. you just need to put all parts in separate boxes and to put them in those boxes in same order you took them out. in that case you will hardly make any mistake.
good luck!!!

 

[mravigna]

Thanks for your advice but...

Thanks for your advice but...

I used the camera today using the on the lens to (hyperfocal) to make sure everything was in focus. Well, the film advance became very stiff and a shutter ribbon broke. The whole camera needs to be serviced. I think that I will sent it to Yuri to have it serviced. These cameras are not worth that much but I like these cameras, and I would like to see how well this camera will work after servicing. Thanks .

 

[mravigna]

Should I have it fixed? Is it worth the cost?

Should I have it fixed? Is it worth the cost?

I have seen this camera for sale on ebay for about 55 usd plus maybe 30usd for shipping. I paid 28usd for mine but as I mentioned in my other comment, the ribbons are now broken, the rangefinder needs to be fixed and the whole camera needs a CLA. This would cost 105usd by Fedka plus another 25 in total for shipping (total 130 plus 28 = 158 usd). Doen't sound like fixing this camera is work the expense. Any thoughts on this?

 

[ruben]

I have seen this camera for sale on ebay for about 55 usd plus maybe 30usd for shipping. I paid 28usd for mine but as I mentioned in my other comment, the ribbons are now broken, the rangefinder needs to be fixed and the whole camera needs a CLA. This would cost 105usd by Fedka plus another 25 in total for shipping (total 130 plus 28 = 158 usd). Doen't sound like fixing this camera is work the expense. Any thoughts on this?

Yes, definitely if you continue to try to have a cheapy cheapy cheapy working Kiev, you will end either with several non working Kievs, or with no Kiev at all.
$28 for a broken sample + $130 for a Fedka CLA = total 158 sounds real for a really working and soft Kiev.

The start with $28 was good, had you taken into account beforehand the further CLA cost. So no harm has happened. The mistake was in believing that for $28, your camera will work.

Now, if I had to choose between a $130 Fedka camera and a $130 Fedka CLAed camera, I will go for the latter.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[windraider]

Part of the Kiev 4's charm is that it looks & feels good and can be bought quite cheaply off ebay. But it is hard to find one in good condition or that functions reliably. Bought 2 off ebay which ended up being paper weights after a while.
If you really want a Kiev perhaps you would be better off paying more for a well serviced one from an established used camera shop or website. But for the same prices charged there are a lot of film cameras that work more reliably.

 

[ruben]

..... But for the same prices charged there are a lot of film cameras that work more reliably.

But no one with the Kiev charm, and no one of them is a system camera, out of leica mount Soviet cameras.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[mravigna]

I agree with Ruben

I agree with Ruben

There is something very special about the Contax II, III and Kiev cameras. I was initially not very attracted by these cameras, prefering the leica type cameras, but now I am hooked. I have a whole bunch of film cameras; Olympus OM 1 and 2, Pentacon FM, Exakta VX, Zenit C, Zorki 3, 3M, 1 and few FED's all of which I like, but I enjoy using the Kiev's or Contax's the most. I think its some kind of an addiction.

 

[acheyj]

No its not an addiction its a disease !.
My first Kiev was pristine and I dont think ever used, it jammed, tried to fix it before I knew how a Kiev really worked. The slow speed escapement wheel was corroded on its shaft. To cut a long story short now its minus all its slow speed setting, I gutted ALL the slow speed gears, what a dissaster, still it looks good works great above 1/50 and has a superb lens. Years ago I lusted after a Contax. Now have 3 Kievs one with meter, prefer the meterless ones . Love 'em

ron

 

[windraider]

Oh yes agree that it is hard to substitute the charm part ... I can't bear to part with both my pretty paper weights. Fondling them during idle moments do inspire me to run out of the house with an RF loaded with a roll of B&W.
But I gave up on them as image makers - that I would entrust to my other more reliable "lightboxes".

 

[Spyderman]

Buying a Kiev off ebay is a real lottery. You can get a camera that was used and thus kept in working shape, or you can get a over-used and worn camera, or a pristine never used camera that was put into drawer some 20 years ago and never used.

I think everyone should realize that cheap Kiev from ebay is just the beginning - as Ruben said - you have to calculate the price of CLA, or (the cheaper option) learn how to do the CLA yourself.
The DIY way is my case. I have 3 perfectly smooth kiev 4a's and 1 metered Kiev 4. It's really a disease... (BTW: one of the CLA'd Kiev-4a's is for sale or trade now)

PS: the easiest way how to tear ribbons is to force it. You buy a camera, you're overly excited to play with it and forget it's full of dried grease. Then you try to cock the shutter, release, cock, release... SNAP... and no more shutter cocking... :bang: :bang: (I'm talking from my own experience. This happened with the first Kiev I had in my hands... and it was a kiev that I bought for another RFF member and I was going to send it to him... :bang

 

[TVphotog]

Heck, it took me three tries just to get a decent working Kiev off of Ebay. Now I have five. Two are working right now, one Kiev 2 1950 model and one Kiev 4A 1973 model. I have one Kiev 2A that I am frankenstiening, by removing the flash synch and the self timer. I have a 3A and a 4A that are used for parts. The 1950 was the most expensive and the best working straight from the box. I did take it apart and CLA it. All told, the camera plus shipping cost around 200$ USD, but it did include a ZK lens. The working 4A was the cheapest at around 30$ including shipping. All of my working Kievs have gotten a DIY CLA. The 2A is still apart. I am repainting the chassis and eventually re-skinning with an Ashi kit.

 

[darkkavenger]

I must be lucky, I never had any problem with all the Kievs I've owned

 

[ruben]

There is something very special about the Contax II, III and Kiev cameras. ..... but I enjoy using the Kiev's or Contax's the most. I think its some kind of an addiction.

And the day you will have a really soft working and accurate Kiev, the addiction will be irreversible.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[ruben]

I must be lucky, I never had any problem with all the Kievs I've owned

Have you acquired them from eBay ?

:angel:

Cheers,
Ruben