Neopan 400 and Rodinal

[Jaans]

I was wondering if anyone has experience with this combination in 35mm format. I have done a lot of TRI-X with Rodinal and have always been happy with the results.

I recently purchased some Neopan 400 and have had a yearning to test this combination. On the net TRI-X seems to be the number one fast film combination with rodinal as favored by users, however I want to try something new for a change. I have read internet gossip that it can be muddy tones with this combination. However, I do want to try it for myself.

So, does anyone have times and hints that they could put forward. I normally use 1:50 and read on the massive development chart that it was about 11:00 minutes for this dilution. What about times for EI:200/250 for this same dilution? (I normally prefer this dilution compared to 1:25.)

Also, how do the highlights and agitation compare with TRI-X? Do you agitate for first 30 seconds or shorter (I only did 5 agitations for the initial 20 seconds with TRI-X) Is the grain smaller or larger (I like grain). How is tonality?

Thanks for any insight with this^^

 

[Turtle]

To be honest, I would develop a roll exactly the same as you would TriX and see what happens. My dev times are very close in Xtol and similar with Xtol and rodinal mixed. I did an experiment with Neopan 400 (I cant remember the details) and the negs were fine. Certainly not muddy. I did not pursue it as the negs lost the grain advantage found in Neopan 400, so I might as well use TriX.

Agitation is not something you need to change. I would stick to what you are used to and adjust one thing at a time, like dev time. As for teh tonality and highlights, I dont htink anyone can help. you need to produce prints ýour way' and see if you like the results.

My 2 cents is that Neopan 400 excels in regular boring developers, like D76, Aculux, Xtol etc tpo produce fine grained details prints not too far off FP4+. IMHO the tonality is superb. Different to TriX (more modern) but lovely greys. There is a slight shoulder so bright white skies (like those in kabul) retain some tone. It has become my standard (Neo 400 in Xtol 1+2). When I want grain I used TriX in Xtol/rodinal mixed. More detail and more generally applicable than 35mm in rodianl alone where detail vanishes.

 

[wde60]

I have used Neopan 400 and Rodinal at 1:50 and 1:100 using the Massive Development times and like the "smooth" tones. There seems be some blown highlights but I usually use this film in subdued light so this is less of a problem. There is also some grain, especially at 1:100, but that's OK with me.

I agitate the developer gently several times during the first minute and then maybe 3 more gentle agitations during the remaining minutes.

1:100

1:50

1:50

 

[Jaans]

Thankyou Turtle for that informative response. I will plop in a roll with TRI-X both exposed the same and develop according to my original TRI-X time and see what happens. I guess that is one of the joys of photography is sometimes trying new mixtures and rediscovering that initial joy of processing.

Also, thanks to wde60 for taking the time to upload those inspiring photos. I particularly liked the 1st shot, and all three were fantastic shots. The tonality coupled with the subjects were a perfect match. Your highlights render excellent detail on my monitor.

 

[John Bragg]

Hi, Jaans. I love the tonality of Neopan 400 in Rodinal 1:50. My personal recipe is @ E.I. 200, developing for 12 minutes at 20c agitating continuously for the first 15 seconds and then 2 inversions at the 4 minute mark and 2 inversions at 8 minutes. Very good sharpness and accutance with lovely controlled highlights

 

[Trius]

Jaans: If you expose @ your normal EI, you might want to pull back on the time a bit, perhaps 10-15%.

What I have found with Rodinal @ 1:100 is that nearly films (the ones that I've tried, at least,) develop very well at 20 minutes/20C. My thought is that at this dilution, Rodinal develops to completion. I haven't done a lot of work at 1:50, but 11 minutes seems to be recommended for most films.

 

[MCTuomey]

John and Warren, beautiful images. OT, but would you care to comment on your scanning approach for this film/dev combo?

 

[Bob Michaels]

Agree to develop exactly as you do Tri-X (or HP5 for that matter)

I think that all iso 400 films loose about 2/3 stop in Rodinal and the Agfa times are too long in an attempt to get that lost speed back. It ends up looking like film pushed one stop to me. So I meter Neopan 400 at an e.i. of 200 or 250 and develop 1:50 for around 9 minutes.

But you should do what works for you.

Just about everything in this series http://bobmichaels.org/SouthApopkaIntro.htm was shot on 120 Neopan 400 shot at 200-250 and developed in Rodinal 1:50

 

[Keith]

Neopan 400 is a great film and I'm about to switch back to it after a 'tour of duty' with Tri-X which I changed to when Fuji stopped supplying Neopan in 100ft rolls. As much as the Kodak is OK I really miss the look of Neopan and when I discovered Freestyle sell it in bulk rolls as Legacy Pro it was a no brainer ... bye bye Tri-X!

I generally didn't like the results I got with Rodinal and Neopan to be honest but also never really got a chance to refine a developing routine that made me happy due to the discontinuation of bulk rolls!

The results above look good so I may persevere with Rodinal some more ... and there's always Xtol, which it seems to love! 😛

 

[mgd711]

Neopan 400 is my standard film. I always develop in Rodinal (paRodinal) at 1+50 for 11 minutes.

All the images here are in that combination, all be it 120 film.

 

[Bingley]

Since I started developing my own b&w, I've tended to use Tri-X more often than Neopan 400, but Neopan 400 sure is a nice film. Here's a sample, shot at box speed, in Rodinal 1:50 for 11 mins:

 

[Tom A]

Has anyone tried Neopan 400 in 120 with Rodinal? My "stats" for that filmsize goes back to late 80's - pre my shooting with Neopan 400.
The arrival of my Bessa III has gotten me shooting 120 at an alarming rate (damn, you have to reload that one often!!!) and though Pyrocat HD works well (@ 12-13 min), I would not mind some Rodinal/NP 400 trials.
Any ideas?

 

[Fotohuis]

The arrival of my Bessa III has gotten me shooting 120 at an alarming rate

Fortunately for you there is a switch 67 - 66 so that's 2 pics more for one roll. Maybe C.V. had to change the specification for you and add a 6x4,5 bottom 🙂

Neopan 400 and Rodinal 1+50 is certainly not grainless but overall a good combination with an E.I. of 250.

My advice for a reliable and cheap 120 roll film and Rodinal 1+50: Try Fomapan Creative 200 iso 125-160.

Here an example in R09 (Para Amino Phenol) and Fomapan Creative 200 iso 160 in 35mm format. A nice grey scale and a regular pronounced grain.
Leica M7 + Elmarit 2,8/28mm + Y-filter.

 

[Tom A]

Just came back from the local "Hippie Day Celebration" on 4th Avenue (up a couple of blocks from where we live. 4 rolls of Neopan 400 in 120, a couple of rolls of "vintage" Tmax 400 in 35mm and one roll of Acros 100 in 35mm.
Will attempt to run some of it today - though the sun is shining and two other cameras are loaded with Adox 25 and my "pinhole" has a roll of Agfa Scopix X-ray film in it (f256 and be there - for a long time!).
I am trying to "shoot up" a dogs breakfast of old films this month in anticipation of the arrival of 8000ft of Double X.

 

[Jaans]

Thanks to John, Bingley,mgd711 and Fotohuis for taking the time to upload those new photographs. Where I am sitting all three look comparable to the Rodinal @ TRI-X combination that i was previously using!

The tonality you all mentioned to capture was fantastic and certainly put stop to that internet rumour I heard of muddy looking negatives with this combination. That is the thing about surfing the net for too long (in my case) - it prevents one from trying these new/different formulas and discovering the results oneself.

 

[Jaans]

Tom A - although I am a new member I have learnt a lot from reading your experiences with TRI-X and other types of film.

So, I was wondering if you have ever compared the big 3 players in the game, namely HP5, TRI-X and Neopan dunked in Rodinal. I guess many people compare them in D76, so I was wondering if anyone had done that in Rodinal? It would be interesting to see how the grain compares on all three in 1:50 and 1:25.

 

[Fotohuis]

Compared in Rodinal HP5+ has the biggest grain, then Neopan 400 and the finest grain has Tri-X (400).
In sharpness: HP5+, Tri-X (400) and Neopan 400 has the sharpest image.
In tonality you can give all three films a large grey scale. It's just the way to develop.

Overall the films are close to each other. For pushing Tri-X is the best, followed by HP5+ while the push capabilities of Neopan are a bit more limited. You can test this easily with the Diafine 2 bath developer:
Neopan 400 iso 640, HP5+ iso 800 and Tri-X (400) iso 1250.

But these are only my experiences. I am normally using Fuji material in B&W and color, followed by Foma (I love the Fomapan Creative 200 film) and for special films Rollei (Orthochromatic, Tech Pan, iso 25 Panchromatic)

 

[Tom A]

I concur with Robert here. The HP5+ does have a bit of a "gritty" grain in Rodinal. Both the Neopan 400 and the Tri X does better.
As for pushing, I rarely do it - but if I have to - I use Tri X for it (800-1200 asa). Just use your "standard" time and add about 30%. It does depend on how you are metering too. Buy more film and experiment - only way to find out what works for you.
Just hung 7 rolls of 120 and 4 rolls of 35 up to dry. Neopan 400 in 120, rated @ 400 in Pyrocat HD and 1 very old roll (1987) of Panatomic X, rated @ 32 and developed in Rodinal 1:100 for 60 min, stand development. All look fine. The 35 was Acros 100 in Beutler 1:1:10/7 min and that always work.
Still 11 rolls to do - I should stop shooting and start developing!

 

[mgd711]

Tom, The Bessa III/GF670 is an adictive camera, when you see your results you just want to shoot it more and more.

I normally run Neopan 400 in paRodinal, my time is 11 min's @ EI 400, 1+50 dilution. All the images in the review were done that way.

I recently picked up 5 pints of Rodinal from Dirk so will be giving that a try soon to see if there is much difference between the paRodinal and Rodinal (I have been told there is none but I want to see for myself)


Mike

 

[Trius]

Mike: A film that requires 11 minutes in Rodinal 1:50 ... Fancy that. 😀