Neopan 400 white dots - what's going on here?

[benmacphoto]

100% view of the spots.

It is the same on every roll of Neopan.
And show more in darker areas such as the flag sample.

 

[jonmanjiro]

100% crop of center

 

[taskoni]

It can happen. That is, not in terms of things in water selectively sticking to some particular film, but heavy metal ions (usually copper and lead, thanks to the installation tubing) may interfere with some films and developers while they do not matter in other combinations.

This is what I thought...

 

[maddoc]

so this time the only variable is the reels/tank (plastic?) used while all other parameters (temp, developer chemistry, water source, graduated cylinder) were identical?

If the problem would be related to the chemistry part of the developing process then I don`t understand why it exclusively happened to only the rolls in one tank.

My guess either build up of gunk again (plastic reels/tank?) or indeed a defect in the film emulsion. Were the emulsion numbers of the two films showing the problems identical but different to the other rolls?

You have a very good memory, Nicolas! That previous time I had developing problems with Neopan 400, I traced the cause to gunk buildup on the Patterson rolls which got dislodged when banging the tanks to remove air bubbles during developing. IIRC at the time, Gabor suggested that gunk buildup may be the problem. After thoroughly cleaning the rolls, I haven't had the problem again.

As for this new problem, you may well be right about it being the white spots. I'll have another look at the negs, this time much more closely!

 

[tsiklonaut]

Yet, I've had this as well.

Use decently distilled water for all solutions. Developer, stop and fix - I wash with normal water but I also use distilled water for the final wetting agent. Keep solutions fresh.

This method fixed this issue for me.

 

[Highway 61]

Fuji is known to have used some rather odd additives in their black and white films, so it may well be that they have very specific pollution vulnerabilities not shared with any other film.

This sounds interesting. If the culprit is there, then we shouldn't regret the B&W Fuji films...

Aside note : I develop in steel tanks using steel reels and my chemicals are kept in brown glass lab bottles.

 

[znapper]

You're right, it's some intelligent crap which had decided to get stuck on Fuji Acros negatives and not on all the other films I was (and still am) developing with the same (pure) water. 😎

Hehe 🙂

Well, one of the main reasons, is crappy water (dirt, metals etc), I use a carbon-filter jug for my development and i used to have problems like this, it really went away when I started using the special jugs.

- I rarely develop more than one tank (1-2 films) at once. My fixer will then stay put in it's bottle until the next time. (can be days, or weeks).

I don't use stop-chemicals, I normally just stop with two full rinses of water.

As for the developer, I use HC-110 and Rodinal, I simply very rarely use reusable developers, so everything is always fresh, every time, apart from the fixer.

But.

I've also seen this when the drying has been messed up by dust in the room.

Also..

I've seen this when I used (and re-used) an accordion-bottle for my fixer. Massive amounts of gunk builds on the inside-wall of these kinds of bottles and when you extend or press those kinds of bottles together, you dislodge silver'ish-slag, that starts to float around in your fixer.

I had so many issues with a roll, from such a bottle that I had shaked(!) after mixing, that I had to write an action for Photoshop, to remove all the (embedded in the emulsion) specks automatically, no way had I been able to do the manual job. (This was with Foma-film)

The fixer was so polluted that rinsing it trough two coffe-filters, produced a nice little "pile" of chemical silver.
- Even more filtering just showed that I would have no way of cleaning the fixer.

Long story sort(er); I dumped my fixer and threw away that bottle. Since then, I've used clear plastic soda-bottles (1.5L) and I throw them away when they start showing a grey haze on the inside.

You say you reused the fixer for 6 films, it may be that the fixer was getting a bit weak, or you reused it too fast, so you may have dumped a lot of silver onto your film (was the Neopan the last films to be fixed?).

I don't have any further bright ideas, unfortunately =)

 

[jonmanjiro]

I don't reuse chemicals. I mix up a fresh batch each time. I use 1L packs of Super Prodol powder (all were from the same production batch this time) that I dissolve in warm water then filter through a paper coffee filter into a 2L PET bottle, and then I transfer the 1:1 diluted developer into 3 x 600ml PET bottles (one for each tank) which go in a temperature controlled bath. I mix the fixer from a 1L bottle of liquid Chugai fixer concentrate (local brand). I use 1/3 of the bottle to mix up two liters (600ml for each tank with a bit left over) which goes into a 2L PET bottle.

The reels are also very clean. I'm fastidious about cleaning them since the gunk problem I had a few years back. Some of the other negs I developed in this most recent round of developing (three batches of six rolls each) are actually the cleanest I've ever gotten. Some of the scans don't need any retouching at all to fix scratches, dust bunnies etc. That's why the spots are so puzzling.

Anyway, after looking through all 18 rolls on a light table using a 40x loupe, I think I have the answer. By coincidence, both rolls out of the same tank that came out spotty are from the same emulsion batch of Neopan 400 - 48IVAI. There are two other rolls from that emulsion batch among the 18 rolls, and looking at them closely they have their share of spots as well, although not as bad as the first two rolls. The other 14 rolls are from other Neopan emulsion batches and all look much better. So I'm surmising that the problem lies with emulsion batch 48IVAI. Weird that Fujifilm could screw up the emulsion. Thanks for the input everyone.

Its hard to see them here, but the fine dots are also in the film rebate area.

 

[shimokita]

By coincidence, both rolls out of the same tank that came out spotty are from the same emulsion batch of Neopan 400 - 48IVAI.

I have a bunch of Neopan400 on ice and will keep my eye on the results...

The "Fujifilm Professional Data Guide / 3-3. Film Identification Edge Markings" does not list a batch code (?) and I couldn't fined the batch number on the box or can... is the only location for the batch code next to the "00" frame? My recently exposed rolls only go down to the "0" frame ; ).

BTW, was the Emulsion Number different in the rolls you processed?

Casey

 

[maddoc]

Measles...😛. 😀

Sorry Jon, couldn't resist !

A Panda with measles ... 😱

 

[jonmanjiro]

I have a bunch of Neopan400 on ice and will keep my eye on the results...

The "Fujifilm Professional Data Guide / 3-3. Film Identification Edge Markings" does not list a batch code (?) and I couldn't fined the batch number on the box or can... is the only location for the batch code next to the "00" frame? My recently exposed rolls only go down to the "0" frame ; ).

BTW, was the Emulsion Number different in the rolls you processed?

Casey

Hi Casey, I just went through my film and came up with the following list of "batch codes". The six digit code starting with 48 is only found at the start of the film near the "00" frame (edit: its also at the end of the roll just after frame "E"). The three digit numbers (emulsion numbers?) next to the codes in the list below are found evenly spaced on films along the top edge. I think this number is the first three digits of the six digit 製造番号 (production number) on the box. I have about 50 rolls left of Neopan 400 with a 281 xxx production number, but hopefully none of it is from batch 48IVAI. I'll be keeping an eye on it as I develop the film.

48IVAI - 281
48IVA3 - 281
48IVA4 - 281
485M10 - 281
485M32 - 281
485M35 - 281
48CQDI - 281
48BLA2 - 288
48BLB5 - 288

 

[jonmanjiro]

Measles...😛. 😀

Sorry Jon, couldn't resist !

A Panda with measles ... 😱

Teasing a sick panda... sheesh😱

 

[benmacphoto]

Most of my Neopan has 281 on the film, but the sample I posted has 285 on the film along the top.
Looking at the negatives with 281 on the film they also exhibit the dots.
I don't have the full 6 digit numbers though, as my film is trimmed and sleeved and I no longer have any Neopan left.

 

[Rayt]

I bought out their last 80 rolls at BIC Camera when Presto was discontinued. I'll shoot a few rolls this weekend and hope they are OK. Agggghhh!

 

[shimokita]

Hi Jon, Thanks for the new/detail information.

I have 71 rolls of Neopan 400 left... most of the film was purchased at Yodobashi in Kitchijoji

24 rolls with expire date of 2015-09
24 rolls with expire date of 2015-04 or 05
18 rolls with expire date of 2015-01
05 rolls with expire date of 2014-11
71 rolls total

the last three rolls that I used were:

48IGN0 - 281
48IGL5 - 281
48IGL2 - 281

If your film was in the freezer, could the problem be a freeze/thaw issue? I guess there is no sense speculating... I will monitor as I use up the film... at the moment I am shooting a bunch of ACROS 100...

.

 

[jonmanjiro]

If your film was in the freezer, could the problem be a freeze/thaw issue? I guess there is no sense speculating...

My film was stored in a fridge, but has never been frozen.

You're right about speculating... we're stuck with the film we've got and we can't complain to Fujifilm anymore now that they're no longer making Neopan 400 :bang: