defconfunk
n00b
Help me chose
I would like a medium format camera. I'm thinking either a folder or a TLR. Mostly it would be used for landscapes and portraits. Not street, action, or anything that requires quick reflexes. A near(ish) seller has both a Nettar and a Bessa for sale very affordably (well under $100). Both are supposed to work, be light tight, etc, but they are not in great cosmetic condition (which honestly doens't bother me).
So, here's my question, which is a better camera for someone new to MF?
The nettar comes with a mint carrying case, has a 'normal' view finder (no range finder), and a novar-anastigmat 1:4.5 75mm lens.
The Bessa (which appears a fair bit larger), has a Anastigmatic 1:6.3 f=105mm lens, doesn't have a case, but is in slightly better condition otherwise. It also has an odd view finder attached to the front of the lens that you look into sideways or from teh top, not the normal vf I'm used to.
My first instinct is to get the Bessa, being a name I recognize. But the 6.3 lens sounds pretty slow to me, which could make available light portaits a pain. The odd view finder equally novel and intimidating.
As mentioned, neither have a range finder, nor a light meter. I'm not bothered by the lack of either. Both have relatively limited shutter speeds, which I will admit causes some concern in potentially tricky light situations.
Which would you chose and why?
I would like a medium format camera. I'm thinking either a folder or a TLR. Mostly it would be used for landscapes and portraits. Not street, action, or anything that requires quick reflexes. A near(ish) seller has both a Nettar and a Bessa for sale very affordably (well under $100). Both are supposed to work, be light tight, etc, but they are not in great cosmetic condition (which honestly doens't bother me).
So, here's my question, which is a better camera for someone new to MF?
The nettar comes with a mint carrying case, has a 'normal' view finder (no range finder), and a novar-anastigmat 1:4.5 75mm lens.
The Bessa (which appears a fair bit larger), has a Anastigmatic 1:6.3 f=105mm lens, doesn't have a case, but is in slightly better condition otherwise. It also has an odd view finder attached to the front of the lens that you look into sideways or from teh top, not the normal vf I'm used to.
My first instinct is to get the Bessa, being a name I recognize. But the 6.3 lens sounds pretty slow to me, which could make available light portaits a pain. The odd view finder equally novel and intimidating.
As mentioned, neither have a range finder, nor a light meter. I'm not bothered by the lack of either. Both have relatively limited shutter speeds, which I will admit causes some concern in potentially tricky light situations.
Which would you chose and why?
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The Bessa will be the one of the old pre war beasts - version one or two in http://schoebels-voigtlaender-archiv.de/BildBessa.html
These are nowhere close to the rare later Bessas with rangefinders and high end lenses that command high prices, but are among most ubiquitous and affordable 6x9s on German ebay. Awkward in use, and the lens is nothing to write home about either - a uncoated pre war triplet that works best from f/11 on. Certainly no portrait camera unless your sitters don't object to tripod sessions.
The Nettar isn't the greatest Ikon folder either, but is reasonably decent to use, and the Novar triplet is nice, some even prefer it to the Tessar - the ebay going rate seems to be quite the same as for the (superior) Mess Ikonta, though. If the camera is in user rather than collector shape, well under $100 ought to be close to $25 - if it is not, you'd be well advised to research elsewhere (ebay, camera fairs) before you buy...
These are nowhere close to the rare later Bessas with rangefinders and high end lenses that command high prices, but are among most ubiquitous and affordable 6x9s on German ebay. Awkward in use, and the lens is nothing to write home about either - a uncoated pre war triplet that works best from f/11 on. Certainly no portrait camera unless your sitters don't object to tripod sessions.
The Nettar isn't the greatest Ikon folder either, but is reasonably decent to use, and the Novar triplet is nice, some even prefer it to the Tessar - the ebay going rate seems to be quite the same as for the (superior) Mess Ikonta, though. If the camera is in user rather than collector shape, well under $100 ought to be close to $25 - if it is not, you'd be well advised to research elsewhere (ebay, camera fairs) before you buy...
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I would also choose the Nettar -- most likely it's postwar, has a faster lens, has a case. The Novar lenses are three element, and so tend to be looked down on, but in my experience they are really very good. I understand they were made by "name brands" like Schneider and Rodenstock on a private label basis for Zeiss Ikon.
You didn't mention the shutter (probably one more piece of info you didn't have too much time to absorb) but as you mention, the lower end cameras would be equipped with lower end shutters too, probably made by Gauthier (Prontor, Pronto, Vario are some of their models). These actually tend to be pretty reliable, and when you think about it, you really don't need all those slower speeds.
The Nettars, like all the ZI folders, are very well made and solid.
You didn't mention the shutter (probably one more piece of info you didn't have too much time to absorb) but as you mention, the lower end cameras would be equipped with lower end shutters too, probably made by Gauthier (Prontor, Pronto, Vario are some of their models). These actually tend to be pretty reliable, and when you think about it, you really don't need all those slower speeds.
The Nettars, like all the ZI folders, are very well made and solid.
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
I'll also suggest the Zeiss over the Voigtlander. The Zeiss strut system was a lot better than the Voigtlander design, so after 60 years you have more chance of getting a decent image. Stopped down to f8 or smaller, the Novar is a decent lens. I used to own a Bessa RF and a Mess Ikonta, now I own the Mess Ikonta.
Also, as suggested above, the price being asked for either camera sounds way too high. I've seen really nice Nettars for £20 in the UK and rough ones for £15.
Also, as suggested above, the price being asked for either camera sounds way too high. I've seen really nice Nettars for £20 in the UK and rough ones for £15.
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Here is some info on the cameras mentioned:
Pre war Bessa
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/1930s-voigtlnder-bessa.html
post War:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/voigtlander-bessa-1-folding-camera.html
A Pre war Zeiss Ikon:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/zeiss-ikonta-5202.html
All can be found cheaply think less than £20 for any of these, and if you want a large neg in a small package folders are great.
My favourite is this:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/ensign-selfix-1620.html
Personally I'd have the folder for landscapes and a TLR for Portraits.
Most of the folders in my collection don't focus close enough for a head shot.
Pre war Bessa
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/1930s-voigtlnder-bessa.html
post War:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/voigtlander-bessa-1-folding-camera.html
A Pre war Zeiss Ikon:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/zeiss-ikonta-5202.html
All can be found cheaply think less than £20 for any of these, and if you want a large neg in a small package folders are great.
My favourite is this:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/ensign-selfix-1620.html
Personally I'd have the folder for landscapes and a TLR for Portraits.
Most of the folders in my collection don't focus close enough for a head shot.
defconfunk
n00b
Sounds like I'll go for the Nettar. After shipping it should come to $50 give or take.
The bessa would be a few dollars more, and doesn't sounds like it would be the better choice.
The bessa would be a few dollars more, and doesn't sounds like it would be the better choice.