new beginnings

This may seem simplistic but why do the images have to be on RFF to talk about them? If members are happier sizing them and posting them to flikr or anywhere else, just link to them or use img tags to bring them up here.

I thought the idea was to try a way to improve things rather than run through some of the old "complaints" about RFF. 😉

Kim
 
Todd.Hanz said:
How about we nix the gallery and upload to flikr, maybe a dedicated group page. I know there is one currently running, and that would handle the objections everybody has to how things are run here. A link could be added on the home page that would show the most recent images uploaded and also allow you to see images in peoples galleries not taken with RFs if they have them.

m2cents,
Todd
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i like this idea.
i have stopped posting pics in my gallery here and only post on flickr now. no complaints or concerns about the gallery but i have only so much time and energy and prefer to post to the net only once. flickr is my choice for that till i get a site of my own up & running.

i think those of us that avoid commenting on pics do so because of a lack of 'critiquing skills', fear of sounding like we don't know a good pic from a poor one etc. most of my reactions to photos seem to be 'emotional' as in, 'wow, that's a great pic!', 'wish i had taken that'. i react to shots that have impact on me but many times i don't really know where that impact comes from or what about that specific shot caused it.
 
back alley said:
i think those of us that avoid commenting on pics do so because of a lack of 'critiquing skills', fear of sounding like we don't know a good pic from a poor one etc. most of my reactions to photos seem to be 'emotional' as in, 'wow, that's a great pic!', 'wish i had taken that'. i react to shots that have impact on me but many times i don't really know where that impact comes from or what about that specific shot caused it.
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thats all anyone really wants, some recognition that their pic is good enough.
 
Guys, I think we need some organization here. Lots of good ideas.

One overriding theme I see so far is that the gallery may be hard to use and not as flexible as other are. There are several approaches we might want to look into, one is education, a canned demo of how to do it, the other is can we reconfigure the SW to allow for larger, easier, etc. Another approach is there an opensource option that could be used to make the admin/users lives easier.

Another area is comments/judging on different salons/galleries. Ideas like having guest judges come in (electronically) and comment and rate. Contests for different awards and perhaps prizes (marketiing dollars) are one approach. We have some great folks here we can us and then we can get them to drag in some other industry types. I thought that there was, perhaps 20 years ago some organization of camera clubs who might help with judging. Are there art contests or organizations that we could use to say people have been in a Juried show? One group could spin off and look at this.

Another thing I would like to do is think about outreach from two perspectives. First reach out to the Boyscouts and Girlscouts and off education and a site to host Photo and other merit badges. This could get new blood into different styles of photography for us. One group can look into this.

We could leverage some of the efforts there for a basic photography education effort that some of the more experience team members could do. Topics like Flash 101, 201 and 301, Street Photograhy without City Streets? How to post and some digital workflow tips. That could be one group.

We should leverage the testing approach some folks like Jonm have done and have a space in the gallery for test shots of different lenses. Develop a standard approach for who we do it and lets have everyone test the different stuff they have. This would be a kick butt resource for the gear heads and bring a few of them over to the Gallery side perhaps.

Once we get this rolling we need some seed articals written about RFF and what we are becoming, the central site to share, learn, grow and become a better photographer. Our focus is helping each other become better and give back to our communities (including this one).

Thoughts?

B2 (;->
 
I didn't say that. The point I was trying to make is that if we concentrate on what can't be done, then progress is less likely than if we try new ideas. 😉

As I referred to in an earlier post, I belong to a Pentax forum that has no gallery. There was a lot of gear talk. A forum was opened along the lines of W/NW but that didn't generate much traffic or at least comments. Tried a critique forum where people were specifically looking for comments rather than showcasing their photos. That generated some more but it was still slow. The weekly comp generates 5 times the traffic and there are always comments. Perhaps one of the reasons is that it is so varied.

FWIW, I am not really into "street photography" or portraits. My thing is trains planes etc. I tend not to visit the gallery much because as stated elsewhere, there are 50K images. Most are very good but just not me. I always look through the Planes, Trains, Automobiles W/NW thread. Perhaps some reorganisation so people can look for the photos that interest them rather than rely on serendipity to find them.

Kim

Gabriel M.A. said:
So no feedback is good feedback, right? 😉
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I think we need to create a taxonomy of how we lay out the galleries. This is nothing more than a big tree map showing how we organize (look at) the pictures. A hierarchical map that should have the rule that you can get from any where to any where else with only seven clicks of the mouse. We should have a way to cross reference uploads easily and painlessly so you load it once and it might have an entry in five different areas (Salon A, Top 10 Pictures, Street Photography, etc.).

We need to have a way to limit access to content based upon user preference. Say I am at work and want to look through galleries but do not want more “Artistic” stuff. I should be able to have a user setting that would either warn me or not show it at all. This would be based upon the photo owners rating and managed by the moderators for the galleries. A new group needs to be formed that would watch comments as well as ratings. We do not want be banned by the nannies or the firewalls.

That also would help with our outreach to younger folks (scouts).

I think there is a group of people (niche in size, but aren’t we all) that is folks who loved photography in their younger years, might have wanted to go to school for it but gave it up for a more traditional career. We should look to get them back into photography and come to our site. We do this by articles and news blurbs and increasing the visibility of RFF.

Perhaps there should be a different landing page for the Galleries just like there is for the DSLRxchange. Lets look to create Galleries that are inclusive of all photography rather than exclusive. Lets not say no, but set up rules and approaches that are followed. Reach out to APUG, Nikonians and others once we get our act together. We need to offer help, ideas, comments that are better than you find any where else. Better judges and alike.

B2 (;->
 
Todd.Hanz said:
How about we nix the gallery and upload to flikr, maybe a dedicated group page.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid I would NOT be on board with that idea. If the gallery here was removed I would never come back.
I had a flickr account and deleted it for a few good reasons. I like the gallery here because I'm not worried about any privacy issues. I don't understand why people think it's so hard to upload and navigate. I find it dead easy.
No offense Todd! 🙂
 
Guys,

As mentioned in the opening Volunteer thread, any changes will be made within the existing form and function of the site. Extensive programming changes are not going to be done.

Neither will RFF become like Flickr. Neither will the gallery be replaced by Flickr.

The doable goal is to make RFF a better imagery site with more images emphasis.

This is a discussion thread for ideas, ideally to be lead by the six volunteers who have agreed to help it happen, and keep it happening. But of course any member is welcome to contribute.

Before any changes are made, let's kick around ideas and see what we come up with. The decision what to try first will be made my myself, the mods, and the image promo guys. Over time, if we try things that don't work so well, we will shelve it and try something else. Possible solutions are fluid and changeable over time.

Stephen
 
Being somewhat stupid, is that possible Frank? Perhaps we put a tag line into the file (jpg) that adds a copyright notice to it and where it is from. This would allow for tracing.

Stoping down loads without requiring client side software I think is hard to do. Perhaps there is some type of water mark we could add, something.

I'll make sure we add that to the thoughts.

B2 (;->
 
the main thing that discourages me from using any online gallery is the comments. they're too casual, too "camera club". instead of being encouraging, they're just nice, polite, effusive, or...lenient. it's always an issue. who wants to say something "negative" when everyone else is "positive", even though it may be helpful? the trap to avoid is becoming like an art school crit, where people tend toward the other extreme.

there's also loose editing, which makes browsing a bit of a chore. don't get me wrong, i don't like rankings or "interestingness". it's no good at highlighting the good stuff. i do like being able to add favorites that other people can look at. if anything is done to the backend of the site, that's what i'd like.

edit: nevermind, i guess that won't happen. how about weekly crit sessions so people can practice? workshops for editing? the online photographer had a thread about that a little while ago. maybe he could moderate!
 
I think we need to look at perhaps a group of folks, like the moderators are on the gear side, to help with comments and pull together groups of commenters for specific galleries. Kim for transporation, Joe for snow, etc.

I agree we need to develop guidelines for this team of how to say things in a positive and constructive manner, not like "Jane you ignorante slvt" (early SNL reference might be too old for you, sorry).

We need to see how we can leverage many members knowledge and desire to help people learn. Some may not fit that mold and that's OK.

B2
 
Kim Coxon said:
This may seem simplistic but why do the images have to be on RFF to talk about them? If members are happier sizing them and posting them to flikr or anywhere else, just link to them or use img tags to bring them up here.

Kim
Click to expand...

This, of course, is a brilliant idea - as most simple solutions are. I'm a big fan of the W/NW threads, which tend to use such means as described by Kim here. I don't see why a "return to images" on RFF couldn't be catalyzed by this mechanism. Of course, for those that post in the Gallery already, using "img ref" html is already second-nature.

This presumes, by the way, my opinion that the "return to images" can and should be a site-wide renaissance as much as possible, and focus on thread discussions centering around posted images - be they here, in the Gallery, in the threads, or elsewhere.

It's the Internet, after all. I also think that BillBigham2's ideas and comments are worth a read, too.


Cheers,
--joe.
 
FrankS said:
Re: PhotoDave's concern: Is the current RFF gallery more secure in preventing image download than a flicker gallery?
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Flickr has already been caught red-handed letting one of its user's images to be used in a major advertising campaign in Australia. There is wording in the agreement that gives Flickr some license over your images (permission to post them on the site) but I'm not sure there is any such language here. Please correct me if I am wrong!
 
Todd.Hanz said:
How about we nix the gallery and upload to flikr, maybe a dedicated group page. I know there is one curently running, and that would handle the objections everybody has to how things are run here. A link could be added on the home page that would show the most recent images uploaded and also allow you to see images in peoples galleries not taken with RFs if they have them.

m2cents,
Todd
Click to expand...


Todd makes a very good point here. I too have stopped adding to the RFF gallery and now mainly upload new projects direct onto Flickr which is easier to manage and you can set specific permissions usages/licenses.

I am also thinking of setting up an entire digital archive on Photoshelter (although this has nothing to do with addressing Joe's and Stephen's question of generating ways of being able to discuss more images related discussions here in RFF).
 
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These are the following groups that exist on Flickr:

RFF PAW
Rangefinder-forum
Rangefinders and Reportage
Rangefinders
Rangefinder Cameras
Telemétricas y algunas (Viewfinders) - Rangefinders
*Bessa Rangefinders*
Olympus Rangefinders
Nikon Rangefinder
Rangefinders and Reportage
FSU rangefinder cameras
Toronto Rangefinder and Viewfinder Film Photography With Primes
Rangefinder

So the solution is so EASY! 😀 Create a NEW GROUP on Flickr and be done with it. Just choose a name to be unique and problem solved.

Call it "Global RFF" 😀

Cheers

MArk
Quito, EC
 
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photogdave said:
Flickr has already been caught red-handed letting one of its user's images to be used in a major advertising campaign in Australia. There is wording in the agreement that gives Flickr some license over your images (permission to post them on the site)... !
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Actually, the photo concerned was released without licensing restriction by the photographer - something you actively have to do, as flickr's default copyright setting is "all rights retained by the photographer". The TOS for flickr only says you give flickr themselves the right to display the photo on their site (which they pretty much have to do). And flickr almost certainly had no knowledge of any of this until the advertising campaign was launched.

The problem with that flickr image was not the photographer's rights (he'd already waived them) but the model's rights covering commercial use of her image. The photographer had no model release and no way of waiving her rights. The advertiser may have made a mistake (though I think not) or may have cunningly bypassed the Australian Trade Practices Act by using an image taken of a non-Australian model by a non-Australian photographer outside Australia. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission would normally have fined the advertiser into compliance with the Act - but had no standing to do so due to the lack of "Australian-ness" in the provenance of the image. In any event, the advertiser gave up the campaign in (much deserved) embarassment. I understand the model is sueing Singtel (the owner of Optus, who was running the campaign) in the US courts, but I have no idea whether she has any prospect of success there given that the advert wasn't shown in the US.

...Mike
 
photogdave said:
I'm afraid I would NOT be on board with that idea. If the gallery here was removed I would never come back.
I had a flickr account and deleted it for a few good reasons. I like the gallery here because I'm not worried about any privacy issues. I don't understand why people think it's so hard to upload and navigate. I find it dead easy.
No offense Todd! 🙂
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I don't find the gallery hard to upload to or to navigate. I have found that most of my shots, after editing, resizing, and compressing, come out to about 400K; trying to fit them into 300K files or smaller is simply a pain in the butt and involves more compromises with image quality than I'm willing to make.
 
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