New Bessa R user (G1 user)

[DxPhoto]

So I got this Bessa R baby (body+lens deal) and I took it for a test. I have been using Contax G1 and I love it. The reason I got this R is so I can really experience the full manual rangefinder, and, I can have a second body so I don’t have to carry my old Canon Elan with me when I need two cameras.

The lens (35/f2.5 C) is small. This makes the entire unit smaller in hand compare to G1. I had a little problem to get used to the manual focus and the built in meter. My eye sight are not that great and that day it was snowing. It took me a bit to archive a focus. I think this is something I need to get used to. Or I should just use hyperfocal method period.

The built-in meter and the shutter speed-dail fooled me many times. And here comes to my major question. The shutter speed dial goes around circle, right? I mean, it doesn’t stop at 1/2000 seconds. If you keep dialing further it will go back to B and 1 and so on. It rotates. Is it normal? Other cameras I used stops at the end instead goes to the beginning again so I know I hit the wall.

My first roll with it was tri-x. It’s different from G1+45. Do you have the same experience? Right now I am thinking this is an exposure issue (see with G1 I rate tri-x at 320 and still often gives +1/3 more exposure and yet I don’t get enough detail the subject is with a just slightly brighter background). I think I have not understood how this meter works yet. Any suggestions to work better with its meter?

Thanks.

 

[Socke]

Don't know about your exposure problem, I rate Tri-X mostly at 400 or push it one or two stops.
How do you develop?

Can you post an example?

 

[Goodyear]

The shutter speed dial goes around circle, right? I mean, it doesn’t stop at 1/2000 seconds. If you keep dialing further it will go back to B and 1 and so on. It rotates. Is it normal? Other cameras I used stops at the end instead goes to the beginning again so I know I hit the wall.

Mine spins all the way around, certainly. Funny, I'd never noticed that before.

Any suggestions to work better with its meter?

The meter in the Bessa is pretty dumb - so as long as you understand it, it's grand. This page on CQ has an approximate diagram of its weighting, which may be useful to you.

 

[DxPhoto]

meter defected??

meter defected??

Hi, this is the follow up on the previous question. I did some test on Bessa R. what I notices is when i put the shutter speed at 1 second, at anytime, with any aperture setting and iso setting, the meter always gives me the "-". for example, with the same metter reading on f8 and 1/125 for correct exposure, I turn the dial towards slower shutter speed. As you can image, I got all "+" for over-exposure until 1/2, and as soon as I got 1, the meter shows "-". Why is that??? if you have the R can you try it the same to see if you have the same problem? Or mine is a defect one. Thanks alot.

 

[daveozzz]

I just tried exactly the same thing with my last remaining bessa and got exacly the same result.
Don't think there's anything defective about your bessa... don't worry about it unless it's causing you real problems... but in my experience it only does this when the exposures are *obviously* wrong anyway and it's caused nothing more than a quick "huh?" until I worked out what was going on and put the shutter speed back to something more sensible.

 

[daveozzz]

(My speed dial rotates all the way round too btw)

 

[DxPhoto]

More tests

More tests

Ok, I did the following test. Holding the camera, same focus, same spot....
film speed | f-stop/meter reads correct exposure "o" | speed where meter start to read under "-"
25 | f2.8 | 1/8 | 1/1000
50 | f2.8 | 1/15 | 1/2000
100 | f2.8 | 1/30 | B
200 | f2.8 | 1/60 | 1
400 | f2.8 | 1/125 | 1/2
800 | f2.8 | 1/250 | 1/4
1600| f2.8 | 1/500 | 1/8
3200| f2.8 | 1/1000 | 1/15
So i think the whole dial is off the alignment? but the test result with iso 50 doesn't make sense if the whole dial is off 2 stops...
I noticed that on top the dial there are two holes I would imagine they should be used to adjust the shutter dail. Am I right? what is the start point then. I mean when you set the B which light the meter should give, if everything is correct. this is the start point right?
can u guys try it.
and this is a brand new camera. How can that happen??

reference... G1 + 45 reads 1/500 at f2.8, iso 400. Since the R has 35mm I don't know what difference it makes. besides the weight pattern...... but it shouldn't off like 2 stops. right???

 

[DxPhoto]

actually i mean the iso dial is off

 

[wpb]

Could it be you are simply outside of the range of the meter? Most meters have an upper and lower threshold and will not operate outside that range. It seems to me that your meter has a linear response up to that extreme, so this would seem to be the situation rather than a defective meter.

 

[DxPhoto]

Hi, the test spot is a lamp light. the meter from G1 reads 1/500 f2.8 and iso 400. so i think it's not out of ev range?

 

[wpb]

I was talking specifically about your first problem, the "0" "+" "-" metering situation. The difference could merely be the difference in metering patterns and what you are pointing the camera towards. If you have an evenly lit grey card that covers the entire image area you should get a reading that is close to the same, but as the Bessa has a highly center-weighted and bottom heavy metering area it would be quite easy to get seemingly different readings from the G1 in all but a "test" type situation.

 

[DxPhoto]

Hi, I just did exactly what you said. I found a white curtain with even light (as even as possible at night). Now my G1+45 gives 1/20, bessa 15/1, a spot meter reads slightly slower than 1/15. So as you suggested, it is an out of EV range issue. I am not a professional so i don;t have this basic knowledge. EV ranges for both G1 and bessa are 1-19 at ISO100. I am trying to understand how it would act differently with ISO400. I have been search on the net and I got this pic.

However I am still confused with this picture even......... so if you can guide me that would be great. Thanks.

 

[DxPhoto]

So after all I guess my observation of the meter and the shutter speed dial goes all around together make sense now!! you do need to go all around the dial to get the correct exposure at certain iso and lighting situation, if you initial ev setting is on the dark side. I guess what I can do is just dial and shoot, regardless what the speed dial says. It does need a lot of brain....when ev compensation kicks in. 🙂

 

[Goodyear]

I'm sorry I missed all that.

Hunt around for other threads on this issue (I think there was one in the last day or two, actually).

When you get outside certain shutter speed combinations at certain ISOs (I think it's when it gets obviously below the range of the meter, eg below 1/30 at ISO 3200, 1/15 at 1600, etc - I think, the specific cut offs are dredged from my memory) the meter uncouples from the mechanics of the camera and reverts to showing "-".

What that picture is showing you on the bottom is the shutter speed vs ISO range that couples with the meter.

I discovered this issue at a wedding when I was trying to shoot ISO3200 really slow 😀 That bugged me, but wasn't too hard to work around. I chedked with Stephen Gandy and he assured me this was normal behaviour for the Bessa.

 

[danwilly]

I posted a separate thread on this Bessa-R blind spot issue. It is NOT caused by being outside the range of the meter. I tried numerous settings from pitch dark to direct sunlight and I couldn't get the meter to give my anything other than a "-" reading at ASA's above 100 with the shutter set at 1.2, or one second. I would argue there is a defect in the microchip that governs the meter readings. If a defect is normal behavior than I got a bridge to sell ya.
Dan Wilson

 

[Goodyear]

I posted a separate thread on this Bessa-R blind spot issue. It is NOT caused by being outside the range of the meter..

But it is.

It has nothing to do with what the meter is looking at. The electronics in the meter only couple with the dial at certain speeds and certain ISOs. See the diagram above.

If I am in the sun, with the meter set to, say, 1/2 at ISO3200, the meter should show mega over exposure (leaving aperture out of the equation, as the meter does, being adumb sensor behind the diaphragm). But it will show a "-" : becasue it is designed with the assumption that any circumstance where that is necessary will be well below its range, and so the electronics have uncoupled and it displays a "-". I would find it much more useful if it was indicated in another way (flashing, say), but it doesn't.

This is very well documented. Use the search feature of this site.

 

[DxPhoto]

It's strange to me still, because I cannot explain why when the correct exposure is f2.8, 1/8 at ISO25, I turn the dial to slower speed, the "+" shows, which is correct. But when the dial hits 1/2000, I would imagine it should be "-". but no, it is not, its still gives "+", not utill "1/1000" then it shows "-". (see post #7)

well I think it must be an old style meter, and really, if that dial doesn't go all around the theory of out of ev range could explains it since it would stop at B.

I test the meter with gray card along with 2 other meters, when the "o" is on, this meter is very accurate (R gives slight slower speed than G1, but i don't know if my G1 is off or not, R pretty much matches with my spot meter. but with all 3 pretty much giving the same reading, I would imagine the meter is VERY ACCURATE. The only thing is how cosina handles these extreme situations. From software perspective, its pretty bad. but i believe there is no software or chip there. maybe a piece of IC the most. So I don't blame it.

The only thing I have learnt by now is when the "-" suddenly switches to "+" it does NOT mean that I just passed the correct exposure or close. I do still have the habit to think oh i am right there then got confused and then either miss the shot or shoot with wrong exposure. Now I am trying to tell myself I will have to go further to see that "o" lights up. It takes time to get used to.

Overall, its a very nice camera (the image is not that sharp compare to zeiss lenses, and maybe besause the frameline or my eyesight). It doesn't give me plastic feeling. I feel its solid. I put in to a small nylon case for old digicamera and I can carry it anywhere I want. And I don't think I would use any 25 or 50 film in this camera at all.

BTW, the instruction book gives different ev ranges in shutter priority (1-19) and aperture priority (4-19). No idea why they are different.

Now I am wondering how the meters on R2A and R3A act.

 

[danwilly]

Your experience is the same as mine. I agree. I found the meter to be dead-on accurate except for these anomalous situations. I guess I will have to continue to pack my light meter. Oh well. I still love that camera. Like marriage, you learn to deal with the flaws.
Dan Wilson