jwanerman
Member
I will soon be investing in a digital darkroom. It will NOT replace my full traditional darkroom, but is intended to be an evolution . I have already selected a scanner to digitize my traditional silver based 4x5, medium format, and 35mm negatives which will be an Epson V700 model. Likewise, the printer selected will be the Epson R2880 ( or R3000 ? ). My current computer is 12 yrs old, and I want to replace it also. My question is what computer do my fellow RFF colleagues recommend? Also, PC vs MAC? It will mostly be used for straight photographic imaging, internet, and some word processing. Thanks for any thoughts that you have.
hipsterdufus
Photographer?
What are you experienced using? PC or Mac? Whatever you're familiar with, I would just stick with that. Use whatever will produce the least amount of pain for you. By pain, I mean time, expense, learning, etc. The quicker you can be up and running on the new PC, the quicker you can get to processing photos.
kxl
Social Documentary
I would say build your own, if you can. In any case, load up on:
RAM
Video memory
storage (internal and external)
2 high quality monitors
Also, don't forget monitor calibration sofwtare, like Datacolor Spyder or others.
RAM
Video memory
storage (internal and external)
2 high quality monitors
Also, don't forget monitor calibration sofwtare, like Datacolor Spyder or others.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
I've just bought a Lenovo w530 laptop. The model with the highest resolution screen also has a wide gamut screen that appears pretty good for photo work, plus it can be configured with a fast processor, loss of team and fast hard drives. It's not the cheapest option, but mine is replacing a big desktop box that will be sold in due course. I'm keeping the external screen though.
Mike
Edited to add: yes, I've added my own ssd's to the original spec. Much less expensive than OEM prices. My desktop was home built, and flew. The hdd's now live in my raid 6 NAS box.
Mike
Edited to add: yes, I've added my own ssd's to the original spec. Much less expensive than OEM prices. My desktop was home built, and flew. The hdd's now live in my raid 6 NAS box.
icebear
Veteran
I still have a PC but recently bought a Mac Mini for my better half and after setting the little machine up and have it running in less than 30 minutes was a revelation. Most of the time was actually connecting the cables. And it also includes about 3 minutes for swapping 2x8 GB's of RAM into it.
I always run into update issues with Windows and related applications that don't run smoothly after an update and it takes hrs to figure out how to fix it. It's just too much time wasted to get/keep the windows machine working. My next machine (in 5 years, maybe ?) will not be a PC that's for sure.
I always run into update issues with Windows and related applications that don't run smoothly after an update and it takes hrs to figure out how to fix it. It's just too much time wasted to get/keep the windows machine working. My next machine (in 5 years, maybe ?) will not be a PC that's for sure.
Rogier
Rogier Willems
If you have a good display (assuming its not 12 years old like your PC...) get a Mac Mini.
If you also need a display get an iMac that fits your budget.
Get 16GB memory
If you can afford it an SSD drive.
If you also need a display get an iMac that fits your budget.
Get 16GB memory
If you can afford it an SSD drive.
Mac vs. PC... whatever one you are comfortable with unless you need a program that only runs on one or the other.
YYV_146
Well-known
Get an ssd boot drive that's big enough for ongoing work. A big HDD for the archives.
A decent CPU and at least 8g RAM will do for photoshop . Graphics isn't that important for working on photos, though. I have a small chassis that I upgrade occasionally with a 3 series I7, 16g of ram and dual 256g SSDs in RAID 0. Pulls through everything including D800 files without a hiccup.
You'll also want a screen that at least covers SRGB and a bit more. Most laptop displays aren't going to do for critical editing. I'd want a smaller side screen, but that's more of a personal preference.
A decent CPU and at least 8g RAM will do for photoshop . Graphics isn't that important for working on photos, though. I have a small chassis that I upgrade occasionally with a 3 series I7, 16g of ram and dual 256g SSDs in RAID 0. Pulls through everything including D800 files without a hiccup.
You'll also want a screen that at least covers SRGB and a bit more. Most laptop displays aren't going to do for critical editing. I'd want a smaller side screen, but that's more of a personal preference.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
The Epson R3000 printer is more efficient with ink than the older 2880, also it is built better. I've owned both. The ink is a huge rip-off so I'd weigh how many prints you really expect to make... if you do less than ~50/year it is upside down. The Harrington Quadtone RIP works with either for better B&W prints than the Epson driver. For color you want to print from Photoshop with the print driver "off".
For someone not overly computer-savvy just get the largest Apple iMac with the most amount of RAM and hard drive space you can afford. I use a Mac Mini set-up myself, if you get yourself a decent display like the NEC P221W then it can be somewhat less expensive, but for simplicities sake it is hard to beat the iMac platform. iMacs are fairly well built compared to similarly specified off the shelf PCs. You also have far better security from Viruses and such, although you still need to monitor what is going on in the eco-system and have the horse sense not to download/launch/install anything you aren't 100% sure of. Most likely PC zealots will claim Macs are over-priced and they do come at a premium, but not by such a large factor as they exaggerate. For most users the advantages of the Mac OS will likely save many hours of headaches... the rare glitches on a Mac usually are solved with a restart.
Ideally you also get something like a Spyder 4 display calibrator, the basic model will do. You do not absolutely need this but it definitely helps especially if you share or sell your images with other people, use outside printers, etc.
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com lists the current models and when updates are expected so that you can make intelligent buying decisions... i.e. not pay full retail for a version on the cusp of a price reduction or update. I wouldn't hesitate to buy an Apple refurb from a respectable dealer.
In general, your upgrade money is best spent on RAM first, and usually RAM purchased from a reliable third party vendor is a much better deal than buying it from Apple. There is a push to sell you the solid state hard drives that are faster and more expensive (and reliable) than traditional drives, but I would opt for more RAM first and foremost, 16 gb minimum for larger scans.
I'd also budget for some sort of external back up hard drive solution and a small Wacom tablet. If you scan 4x5 on the Epson 700 then figure each base scan is 500 gb, space adds up quickly, it is not unusual to consume 1 tb per year if you are an active shooter.
Adobe's cloud-based Photoshop for $9.99/month has been controversial but having used it for a couple of months now, it works really well and now that Lightroom is bundled and the price is stable, I'm happy with it. The one future-proof thing I do is to save my master files as .TF rather than .PSD just on the chance that I may use some other app sometime in the future.
It's also a good time to determine a long term storage, back-up, and naming convention for your files.
For someone not overly computer-savvy just get the largest Apple iMac with the most amount of RAM and hard drive space you can afford. I use a Mac Mini set-up myself, if you get yourself a decent display like the NEC P221W then it can be somewhat less expensive, but for simplicities sake it is hard to beat the iMac platform. iMacs are fairly well built compared to similarly specified off the shelf PCs. You also have far better security from Viruses and such, although you still need to monitor what is going on in the eco-system and have the horse sense not to download/launch/install anything you aren't 100% sure of. Most likely PC zealots will claim Macs are over-priced and they do come at a premium, but not by such a large factor as they exaggerate. For most users the advantages of the Mac OS will likely save many hours of headaches... the rare glitches on a Mac usually are solved with a restart.
Ideally you also get something like a Spyder 4 display calibrator, the basic model will do. You do not absolutely need this but it definitely helps especially if you share or sell your images with other people, use outside printers, etc.
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com lists the current models and when updates are expected so that you can make intelligent buying decisions... i.e. not pay full retail for a version on the cusp of a price reduction or update. I wouldn't hesitate to buy an Apple refurb from a respectable dealer.
In general, your upgrade money is best spent on RAM first, and usually RAM purchased from a reliable third party vendor is a much better deal than buying it from Apple. There is a push to sell you the solid state hard drives that are faster and more expensive (and reliable) than traditional drives, but I would opt for more RAM first and foremost, 16 gb minimum for larger scans.
I'd also budget for some sort of external back up hard drive solution and a small Wacom tablet. If you scan 4x5 on the Epson 700 then figure each base scan is 500 gb, space adds up quickly, it is not unusual to consume 1 tb per year if you are an active shooter.
Adobe's cloud-based Photoshop for $9.99/month has been controversial but having used it for a couple of months now, it works really well and now that Lightroom is bundled and the price is stable, I'm happy with it. The one future-proof thing I do is to save my master files as .TF rather than .PSD just on the chance that I may use some other app sometime in the future.
It's also a good time to determine a long term storage, back-up, and naming convention for your files.
RichC
Well-known
Pretty much any mid-priced, mid-specification computer will do everything you need. Computers of that specification will come with enough speed and memory for photography. There's nothing extra you need as a photographer. (I used to build my own computers, but gave up 5 years ago as it wasn't worth the effort since I could buy a computer off the shelf that was just as good - and cheaper!)
I prefer desktop computers, but if you buy a laptop you'll need to spend more to match a mid-specification desktop computer. Also, make sure get a laptop with a large, high-resolution, decent quality screen.
An extra you should buy is a screen calibrator like a Spyder or Color Munki - doesn't matter which brand. Even if you shoot mostly B&W it's needed for accurate tone. Monitors out of the box are designed for to appeal to the masses, so are very bright and contrasty and oversaturated. Your screen may seem a bit too dull and dim after calibration - but you soon get used to it!
Also, back-up. Buy an external drive. Good makes come with everything you need, including software.
As to Mac vs PC, they're as good as each these days, and are equally easy to use. They are also equally annoying as well - both crash from time to time, sometimes requiring a restart (neither more often than the other). I use both, and don't understand the rabid slavering from some quarters pro or con one make. Get whichever you like or are used to!
I prefer desktop computers, but if you buy a laptop you'll need to spend more to match a mid-specification desktop computer. Also, make sure get a laptop with a large, high-resolution, decent quality screen.
An extra you should buy is a screen calibrator like a Spyder or Color Munki - doesn't matter which brand. Even if you shoot mostly B&W it's needed for accurate tone. Monitors out of the box are designed for to appeal to the masses, so are very bright and contrasty and oversaturated. Your screen may seem a bit too dull and dim after calibration - but you soon get used to it!
Also, back-up. Buy an external drive. Good makes come with everything you need, including software.
As to Mac vs PC, they're as good as each these days, and are equally easy to use. They are also equally annoying as well - both crash from time to time, sometimes requiring a restart (neither more often than the other). I use both, and don't understand the rabid slavering from some quarters pro or con one make. Get whichever you like or are used to!
hipsterdufus
Photographer?
RichC wrote what I was too lazy to write. +1 to his recommendations.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I'm going to opposite direction. Have my digital darkroom for years. Now waiting for our basement to be finished to try analog printing for first time.
PC if you want to be flexible in hardware and software configurations.
MAC if you IT illiterate and willing to spend twice more for same results.
If you choose PC.
First most important part is graphics card. Doesn't have to be very expensive 3D gaming beast, but powerful enough. Those on motherboards are not good. Need one which goes into the slot.
I would take tower body which will accommodate solid state HDD for system and to have LR, scanning software installed. And then two RAIDed regular HDDs for pictures.
It is nice to have monitor calibrated as well. Calibrating solution is around $100 now.
On the software side, I'm using only Lightroom, absolutely enough for me for PP and catalogization. Flickr supports tags from LR.
And Alarm Zone anti-virus.
Once you have hardware configured and software installed make the ISO image of system HDD.
To avoid wasting of time big time if something wrong happened.
PC if you want to be flexible in hardware and software configurations.
MAC if you IT illiterate and willing to spend twice more for same results.
If you choose PC.
First most important part is graphics card. Doesn't have to be very expensive 3D gaming beast, but powerful enough. Those on motherboards are not good. Need one which goes into the slot.
I would take tower body which will accommodate solid state HDD for system and to have LR, scanning software installed. And then two RAIDed regular HDDs for pictures.
It is nice to have monitor calibrated as well. Calibrating solution is around $100 now.
On the software side, I'm using only Lightroom, absolutely enough for me for PP and catalogization. Flickr supports tags from LR.
And Alarm Zone anti-virus.
Once you have hardware configured and software installed make the ISO image of system HDD.
To avoid wasting of time big time if something wrong happened.
redisburning
Well-known
if you can put 120 film in a camera you can build a PC.
consumer macs are a joke. if you wanna spend up to one of their 30" s-ips monitors and their workstation model, then sure it's a very competent computer. I believe you are looking at a total cost of around 7000 for such a setup, not bad for the price actually.
I edit 4x5s on my PC off a 4990 and they require significant power. the i7 in my work laptop cannot handle them without a bit of thinking so I do absolutely recommend a desktop solution since you said you would do 4x5 since my 2500k i5 does better on my desktop.
Solid State Drives are good too. Get at least one and move stuff off of it as you work.
I don't personally buy OEM; my brands for parts are Intel, Asus, Mushkin, EVGA, Western Digital and PC Power & Cooling. That's processor, mobo, ram, GPU, HDD and power supply. I have a first gen Raptor that still works, btw, by far my longest lasting HDD.
consumer macs are a joke. if you wanna spend up to one of their 30" s-ips monitors and their workstation model, then sure it's a very competent computer. I believe you are looking at a total cost of around 7000 for such a setup, not bad for the price actually.
I edit 4x5s on my PC off a 4990 and they require significant power. the i7 in my work laptop cannot handle them without a bit of thinking so I do absolutely recommend a desktop solution since you said you would do 4x5 since my 2500k i5 does better on my desktop.
Solid State Drives are good too. Get at least one and move stuff off of it as you work.
I don't personally buy OEM; my brands for parts are Intel, Asus, Mushkin, EVGA, Western Digital and PC Power & Cooling. That's processor, mobo, ram, GPU, HDD and power supply. I have a first gen Raptor that still works, btw, by far my longest lasting HDD.
Dwig
Well-known
Mac or PC ... either. Preference is a matter of style and not ability.
Processor: i5 is OK, and i7 is better (preferably the newer Haswell family)
RAM: 8gb is good, 16gb is better.
HD: SSDs are great but small. If you go the SSD route you need a second large conventional drive for your image library.
Backup: In addition to the HD(s) mentioned above you also need another for backup. This should be an external. Personally, I have two backup drives. One for the hourly backups and the second, which is kept offline when not in use, for the monthlies. At work (I work for a photographer's gallery) we have one for the hourlys (Mac TimeMachine) and two for the monthlies. We rotate between the two and they are stored offsite.
Processor: i5 is OK, and i7 is better (preferably the newer Haswell family)
RAM: 8gb is good, 16gb is better.
HD: SSDs are great but small. If you go the SSD route you need a second large conventional drive for your image library.
Backup: In addition to the HD(s) mentioned above you also need another for backup. This should be an external. Personally, I have two backup drives. One for the hourly backups and the second, which is kept offline when not in use, for the monthlies. At work (I work for a photographer's gallery) we have one for the hourlys (Mac TimeMachine) and two for the monthlies. We rotate between the two and they are stored offsite.
FrankS
Registered User
Just bought an Accer mini laptop/netbook. Windows 8 sure is different! Seems to be an OS more suited to a touch screen.
ottluuk
the indecisive eternity
These kinds of comments always crack me up. Among my friends, some of the most rabid Apple fans are: a mathematician who implements algorithms in C and works with an old FORTRAN-based (IIRC) hydrodynamics model for living; a Ruby On Rails specialist in an IT company; a guy who recently finished his MSc in computer science for some image processing algorithm; a PhD holder working on bioinformatics software. Personally, I'm using R and QGIS for (mostly) geospatial data visualization and analysis. Could we do these things on PCs? Generally, yes. Do we want to? Umm... no?
The notion that Mac OS is somehow dumbed down or specifically avoided by computer-literate people is just plain wrong. Whether Macs are worth the extra cost is another question. I like mine and, as a tool, it has paid for itself several times over. Spread over its running service years, the extra cost per year compared to an equivalent PC is something I could balance by skipping a couple of trips to the pub.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
I liked Win8 RT on a tablet, wish I had a license for 7 for my desktop, may be forced to get Win8 when XP support ends next year.
YYV_146
Well-known
I'd agree that it's not as difficult as many people think, but not as easy as loading film. There's a lot of stuff that one can potentially screw up when putting a PC together, especially for someone who has little to no background in assembling hardware...It's a nice exercise, but I don't blame people who want to pay and get a pro do the job properly.
The current iMacs are actually fine, at least if you factor in the size/looks - and even an entry-level model has enough muscle to push CC and LR.
thegman
Veteran
PC or Mac? Get whichever you have experience of, or if you have experience of neither, get what your experienced friends have, so they'll be able to help you out.
If you get a Mac, I'd just go for a Mac Mini with as much RAM as it'll take. 16GB of RAM is cheap enough these days, but get the RAM from somewhere other than Apple, as their markup on memory is awful.
I just bought a Lenovo PC, I compared the price to a similar Mac, and Macs are really not that much more expensive, so if that's what you want, it won't cost you a great deal more. Sure you can get a cheaper PC than Lenovo, but as with everything you generally get what you pay for.
Only thing with Macs is that iMacs and Mac Minis now do not come with optical drives, so remember that if you like to get CDs of scans from labs or want to burn DVDs for backup etc. You can get cheap add-on drives of course, but factor it into your pricing.
If you get a Mac, I'd just go for a Mac Mini with as much RAM as it'll take. 16GB of RAM is cheap enough these days, but get the RAM from somewhere other than Apple, as their markup on memory is awful.
I just bought a Lenovo PC, I compared the price to a similar Mac, and Macs are really not that much more expensive, so if that's what you want, it won't cost you a great deal more. Sure you can get a cheaper PC than Lenovo, but as with everything you generally get what you pay for.
Only thing with Macs is that iMacs and Mac Minis now do not come with optical drives, so remember that if you like to get CDs of scans from labs or want to burn DVDs for backup etc. You can get cheap add-on drives of course, but factor it into your pricing.
Shac
Well-known
+!+1+1 Thank you!!!