new is nice

[back alley]

as i think all are aware, some of the members here had a 'joe drive' and chipped in and bought me a new zeiss ikon with a 35/2 biogon lens.
i liked the new lens so much that i sold off a goodly part of my small canon collection in order to buy myself another new lens, the 25/2.8 and it too is a fabulous lens, in fact it has become a favourite and rarely leaves the zi body.

i have to say that i love the 'newness' of this gear. that the lenses move so smoothly and without variance and that the body feels smooth and easy to use without quirkiness.

what brings all this up?
ebay mostly.

i bought a canon 50/1.9 that turned out to be nothing like the description in the ad. i was severely disappointed and told the seller so. he told me to return the lens and not to bother shopping at his 'store' again. he was upset with me for telling him that his description was not close and that he wasn't dealing with a neophyte but someone that knew a bit about canon lenses.

i just received an 85/2 lens from a well known seller on ebay and his own site. the lens is beautiful, cosmetically it is as close to a 10 as it could be for such an old lens. the glass is (dare i say it) pristine, sparkling clean and clear.
but the aperture and the focusing is rough. it's not new.

this isn't really a complaint about old but more a small nod to the new.

boy, it's nice to play with new.

i can understand why some folks sell off much of their older gear in order to buy some new gear, often much less new gear.

joe

 

[Will]

Glad that you find a good seller for the 85/2.

Well, Joe, the ZI is a different animal compare to your canon gear, letting go of the old stuffs is a win-win situation to, your gain is also someone elses' gain!

So are you happy with your ZI? How about your M3, still having fun with that?




Will

 

[ray_g]

Buying used is good, especially when you are starting out, Joe. Unfortunately, it often becomes an exercise in false economy, where you end up "making do" with 10 old things that actually costs more than ONE really good, reliable, new kit.

 

[back alley]

Glad that you find a good seller for the 85/2.

Well, Joe, the ZI is a different animal compare to your canon gear, letting go of the old stuffs is a win-win situation to, your gain is also someone elses' gain!

So are you happy with your ZI? How about your M3, still having fun with that?

Will

will, i am very happy with the zi, i almost feel guilty at happy i am.
the zi is different from any camera i now own.

the m3 is a beautiful camera, especially in purple, and it feels good in my hand.
i think i will keep the m3 and the zi for a long time.
joe

 

[back alley]

Buying used is good, especially when you are starting out, Joe. Unfortunately, it often becomes an exercise in false economy, where you end up "making do" with 10 old things that actually costs more than ONE really good, reliable, new kit.

agreed. but it was a great and fun way to learn also.

and then there are the gems that might have been missed, like my precious canon 35/2.8.

i may pack some stuff away and see how i 'do' without it.

joe

 

[rover]

Don't go selling off Sugar now for a sparkling new puppy!! Somethings do get better with age. 😉

Glad to hear you enjoy the ZI.

 

[Will]

will, i am very happy with the zi, i almost feel guilty at happy i am.
the zi is different from any camera i now own.

the m3 is a beautiful camera, especially in purple, and it feels good in my hand.
i think i will keep the m3 and the zi for a long time.
joe

They are top tiers cameras, you will be happy for a very long time.






Will

 

[Nick R.]

Buying used is good, especially when you are starting out, Joe. Unfortunately, it often becomes an exercise in false economy, where you end up "making do" with 10 old things that actually costs more than ONE really good, reliable, new kit.

This should be part of the RFF faq for newbies.

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

Congrats Joe on the 25mm.

Did you get a separate VF with it? VC or ZI? How do you like the VF if you have one?

 

[back alley]

Congrats Joe on the 25mm.

Did you get a separate VF with it? VC or ZI? How do you like the VF if you have one?

didn't get a vf.
i'm using the entire frame of the zi and so far it seems to be working.

i could use a level though...🙂

 

[ruben]

Buying used is good, especially when you are starting out, Joe. Unfortunately, it often becomes an exercise in false economy, where you end up "making do" with 10 old things that actually costs more than ONE really good, reliable, new kit.

Kindly enable me a small correction.
Buying new is better than buying used, for the guy/girl with the neccessary deep pocket, who ask what's the better economy. For the one with both alternatives open, the quoted advice fits.

Buying used is good too for all those shrinked pockets like me and most of humanity. Yet my advice for my kind is not to get too much price-enthusiastic, and gently agree to pay more than the lowest, and purchase from reputable sellers with good manners to attend you in case of malfunction.

All my photographic life, both as pro and now as amateur (lover of), has been a constant struggle against sellers' and ignorants' concept that either you spend the ten thousand or you are nothing. A camera is a box with a lens at one end and film or chip at the other end. Equipment may enable or disable some pictures ans some types of photography, but never will stand in the way to achieve fine or self satisfactory images. I do not know how good photographer I am, but I am certain that following my path I enjoyed a lot and continue to.

I too enjoy very much from good gear, both new and old, but I do not advice anyone to count people as only those with similar economic facilities to oneself. Not only the concept is wrong, but too simplistic, and self destroying.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[ray_g]

Your point is well taken, Ruben. A reliable used camera and a well-kept set of basic lenses is good anough for anyone. But for most people here, myself included, the process did not end there. The comparatively low cost of used equipment often leads to more lenses, and more cameras. Then comes the "step up" to a more expensive (but not necessarily better) system.

As Joe said, a fun and educational journey. But if you sum it all up, may have been more costly than a new camera and set of basic lenses. By new, I was not specifically referring to the ZI. It is just as applicable to a Bessa R and one good lens.

Lastly, my comment was an observation in reply to Joe's post, and was not meant as advice to anyone.

 

[FrankS]

It's hard to beat the value of buying used Leica, IMO.

 

[ray_g]

It's hard to beat the value of buying used Leica, IMO.

I agree with you Frank. All my Leica's are used. Not that I would buy a new MP, but if you count all your used leica bodies, Frank, would you say they cost you less than ONE new MP, M7 or M6? 🙂

 

[ruben]

Your point is well taken, Ruben. A reliable used camera and a well-kept set of basic lenses is good anough for anyone. But for most people here, myself included, the process did not end there. The comparatively low cost of used equipment often leads to more lenses, and more cameras. Then comes the "step up" to a more expensive (but not necessarily better) system.

As Joe said, a fun and educational journey. But if you sum it all up, may have been more costly than a new camera and set of basic lenses. By new, I was not specifically referring to the ZI. It is just as applicable to a Bessa R and one good lens.

Lastly, my comment was an observation in reply to Joe's post, and was not meant as advice to anyone.

Retrospectively viewed, all of us have experienced the same. We all have invested bit by bit in what totals a big amount of gear, that if sold at original paid prices we may buy today a much smaller set-up of higher quality. So what ?

Retrospectively viewed, perhaps Eve wouldn't pick the Apple of Evil, nor Hitler lost the Stalingrad battle...

Are we to blame ourselves today for not having bought that Leica twenty years earlier?

Most of us twenty years earlier could not afford that Leica, and made the best of our money according to the best of our judgement, at that given moment. And those who luckily could they afforded it indeed. Now we are smarter, we all are smarter than yesterday. So what ? Are we to engage in parroquial remorse feelings to the end of our lives?

Are we to tell the newcomer (AND HERE IS THE BIG NUT) don't buy anything until you can afford the best ?

Are we to repeat our next store seller's story that either you spend the ten thousand or we are nothing ? Or vice-versa is here some one thinking that because of the very fact he/she can spend the ten thousand, he or she is SOMEONE? Are we crazy ?

To the newcomer I will proudly say today exactly the same that I told myself twenty years ago: Buy the best you can afford today and have the biggest possible fun and satisfaction, without looking too much aside for the other's gear. The hell with money ! Within reasonable limits life and creation starts where money ends.

And I feel so proud of myself in standing today on the same grounds I stood twenty years earlier, so proud, that no ZI or M7 will ever give ten percent of this feeling. It is through the struggle against deprivation that man either becomes animal or human. But if humanhood is what you are looking after, it cannot be bought, only built.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[back alley]

there is no denying that what ray says is true.
but i don't think he meant that was the way we SHOULD go but rather the way most of us have gone.

i don't regret my path at all. it taught me what i know today.

but i will reiterate, new is nice.

 

[ruben]

but i will reiterate, new is nice.

New is nice, black is beautiful, chrome is cool - what original thinking !

 

[ray_g]

Are we to tell the newcomer (AND HERE IS THE BIG NUT) don't buy anything until you can afford the best ? Are we crazy ?

And whoever could surmise that from my post should indeed be labeled as crazy. I do not presume to advice anyone, newbie or not, but if he or she would take my post as such, as Nick probably was alluding to, the admonition is to beware that one old camera, leads to another and yet another that one does not truly need. After all, how many people truly need more than one? Before long, you have a closet full of equipment costing more than the camera you think you can never afford. Is that good or bad? You may be perfectly happy with that, and some may not. But that is what I mean by "false economy."

As I said, it was never proferred as advice, or meant to be elitist. Take it as you will, but please do not put words in my mouth.

 

[back alley]

New is nice, black is beautiful, chrome is cool - what original thinking !

is there a reason in particular you are being rude or am i missing something here.
there is no claim to being original just stating what is running through my head at the moment.
i love my old gear but can also appreciate the new stuff also.

joe

 

[ruben]

And whoever could surmise that from my post should indeed be labeled as crazy. I do not presume to advice anyone, newbie or not, but if he or she would take my post as such, as Nick probably was alluding to, the admonition is to beware that one old camera, leads to another and yet another that one does not truly need. After all, how many people truly need more than one? Before long, you have a closet full of equipment costing more than the camera you think you can never afford. Is that good or bad? You may be perfectly happy with that, and some may not. But that is what I mean by "false economy."

As I said, it was never proferred as advice, or meant to be elitist. Take it as you will, but please do not put words in my mouth.

Nor I implyied you are crazy, but that you have a wrong advice for the newcomer. Yes, one old camera leads to another, no doubt, and in the long term this is false economy. THEREFORE ?

What you really do in real life is of your own concern. But if you use to never advice on what you have knowledge, and keep "artistic" secrecy on what you have achieved, you are, in fact, being either elitist or eclectic.

We all have learnt from past generations, we all have a moral duty towards new generations. Otherwise we are betraying our art, and ourselves.

Cheers,
Ruben