"New" ISO400 BW film from Japan Camera Hunter!

[BLKRCAT]

Im curious to see what the expected shelf life should be on this film. Since most films come with an expiry.

How can one judge the expiry when the film stock is already expired or about to expire...

 

[mani]

Im curious to see what the expected shelf life should be on this film. Since most films come with an expiry.

How can one judge the expiry when the film stock is already expired or about to expire...

No-one has established for sure that this is old film stock - that's just the allegation in this thread, apparently based on the fact that '"Re-born" is marketing blabla.'

Right now, that doesn't seem to be enough information on which to base such sweeping condemnation of this initiative, imo.

I stress I've got no idea one way or another, but I'd be extremely wary of accusing someone of this sort of deception without solid evidence.

 

[Muju79]

I think the confusion is coming in the first place from Bellamy.
Of course nobody forces him to disclose anything: I don't think that LOMO is giving any detail about the provenience of Lady Grey film but for sure it's a re-badged film and not something they're producing on their own.

What does it mean "this is a re-born film" (Bellamy's own words)?

There are not many options:

1. Upon an agreement with Bellamy AGFA has started to manufacture again in 2016 fresh batches of a film that was produced and then discontinued at some point in the past. What film was it, we don't clearly know but the data provided by Bellamy match 100% Aviphot 400s.

2. This is old stock of a discontinued film. Re-spooled and re-badged, as many other companies are doing although Bellamy clearly stated this is not a re-spooled film currently in production.

Does anybody really have to care about all this? In my opinion it depends.
If you care where your money is going and what are you using for your photography, the answer is "maybe" because this film is most likely 100% the same as, for example, Rollei Retro 400s that has exactly the same technical details, but it's selling for half the money. There's people placing orders at Kanto camera service through Bellamy and paying him money for this service when Kanto Camera has english speaking staff perfectly able to make deals without any intermediary...so yes, there's people out there who like to pay more to have the same service. Maybe they have too much money, maybe they are too lazy, who knows. I don't care how people is spending their own money but I certainly care about how I'm spending mine.

 

[hwntw]

Kanto Camera has english speaking staff perfectly able to make deals without any intermediary..

I suspect the same applies to Mr Miyazaki and MS Optical lens conversions. I must learn Japanese

 

[Noserider]

For all we know they could have had the emulsion nearly completely mixed and ready to pour on the substrate but just needed a buyer of the master roll; which is what Bellamy *could* have done. Slitted, spooled and packaged and there you go, not respooled and not made by AGFA

 

[newsgrunt]

has anyone asked JCH specifically about the provenance of this film and if it is indeed a new coating of an old formula or if it is an old master roll tucked away forgotten until now ?

 

[Muju79]

has anyone asked JCH specifically about the provenance of this film and if it is indeed a new coating of an old formula or if it is an old master roll tucked away forgotten until now ?

Someone's been trying to guess the name of this emulsion on his Instagram and he didn't take it well.
Whatever it is, declared technical specs are 100% the same as other film like Retro 400S which is still produced and sold fresh for half the price. I don't understand what's the selling point of this film at all: it isn't something unique and it is not cheap by all means. Only people who don't know what they're buying and trust the JCH brand are probably going to give it a try.

 

[Keith]

I think JCH is going down the Lomo path just a little with this ... and good luck to him if it comes off because if it doesn't he will be the one out of pocket, not us ultimately. I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of gathering paid orders to fund the venture but that is also up to the individual if they buy from him ... I wouldn't do it.

I also think the name 'Street Pan' is a bit of a cheesy choice .... along with the gauche packaging.

I have 1000ft of tri-x in the freezer ... I know its qualities and although I miss Neopan it's still a great emulsion and very versatile. Where Bellamy's venture goes will be anyone's guess but at twelve dollars a roll AUD I wouldn't touch it.

 

[Keith]

And I meant to add ... threads about film and our choices of medium along with type of camera always seem to invoke passionate and often heated discussions.

It's a pity you lot can't muster up this sort of heart felt enthusiasm for actual images!

 

[Muju79]

And I meant to add ... threads about film and our choices of medium along with type of camera always seem to invoke passionate and often heated discussions.

It's a pity you lot can't muster up this sort of heart felt enthusiasm for actual images!

Haha fair enough! But I think it's only natural that if a new film pops up, film users will discuss about it to understand what it really is (being nothing new) and whether it's worth trying it or not.

 

[Pioneer]

Negative comments aside, I just pre-ordered a good supply and I wish Bellamy well in this venture.

It seems by what I read that there are some people who may be concerned that Bellamy is cutting into their own sales with this introduction. If so then I hope that you are able to survive a little competition.

Personally I go through a lot of film and am always interested in looking at different types. Unlike many of you I was not heavily into photography back when some of these emulsions were regularly offered so it is nice to have the opportunity to try this film again, fresh off the production line. If Bellamy says this is new film and has an expiration date of 2020 then I believe him. The original emulsion appears to have been an Agfa Surveillance film so it does not appear that any of us will be beta testing something that has never been produced before.

I think choice is great and I would like to thank Bellamy for giving a little back.

 

[joeswe]

If Bellamy says this is new film and has an expiration date of 2020 then I believe him.
A film use-by-date of 2020 is very interesting. It can't be old film stock dug up from a dark forgotten corner of the warehouse then.

This conclusion is naive. Most film stock, especially b&w, can be kept frozen for very long time without noticeable ill effect.

The former version of Aviphot was discontinued and replaced by the newer version sometime in the mid 2000s.

To put this in perspective, the last Agfa(photo) Leverkusen production APX100 stock out of the Agfaphoto bankruptcy of 2005 was kept frozen and sold off by Maco, Lupus and others in batches as fresh film with progressing use-by-date timed from the time when the specific batch was released. The last batch which was sold around 2013 had a use-by-date of 2015 or 2016 IIRC. This was material that was coated in 2004 or 2005 and it was still very close in its properties to freshly coated material.

A 2020 "use-by-date" does not prove that JCH's film is freshly coated material. Could it be well kept deep frozen old stock from the Agfa warehouses that is sold with a "fresh" best-by-date now? Absolutely.

 

[Muju79]

Nowadays those expressing their opinion, if they're not singing with the choir are either trolls or they have a secret agenda. Of course!

 

[DominikDUK]

If it is indeed an old masterroll that was sold by say Agfa-Gevaert than Agfa still made money with the film and it will show up as profit for the film division.
If it is a newly coated discontinued emulsion than Agfa-Geveart's film division again profited from that deal.
Of course if JCH bought the film from a third party than it didn't really help the original mfg. directly but the news still generated interest for film.
Repackaging existing products is not black and white but grey.

 

[Skiff]

This conclusion is naive. Most film stock, especially b&w, can be kept frozen for very long time without noticeable ill effect.

The former version of Aviphot was discontinued and replaced by the newer version sometime in the mid 2000s.

To put this in perspective, the last Agfa(photo) Leverkusen production APX100 stock out of the Agfaphoto bankruptcy of 2005 was kept frozen and sold off by Maco, Lupus and others in batches as fresh film with progressing use-by-date timed from the time when the specific batch was released. The last batch which was sold around 2013 had a use-by-date of 2015 or 2016 IIRC. This was material that was coated in 2004 or 2005 and it was still very close in its properties to freshly coated material.

A 2020 "use-by-date" does not prove that JCH's film is freshly coated material. Could it be well kept deep frozen old stock from the Agfa warehouses that is sold with a "fresh" best-by-date now? Absolutely.

Exactly that.

For years different companies have sold old BW film (which was produced many years ago) with expiry dates many years in the future.
They took the film (mostly pancakes) from the warehouse, cut it, perforate it (with 35mm), spool it into cassettes (35mm) or finish it to roll film, put an expiry date of 3-4 years on it and sold it.
And that is what JCH is doing here.
Because it is the only thing which can be done.
People here, who think that could be a fresh coating, are completely naive and don't know anything about film production.
Agfa cannot make small production runs. JCH cannot finance big production runs Agfa needs.
By the way, he told us what it is in his own words: Old, discontinued Agfa film. And the tech specs he gives are identical to the discontinued Aviphot Pan 400S.

I will not pay about double the price for old material, because I can get the successor of this film as fresh material for a very attractive price.

I don't think the market needs the same or very similar films in lots of different packings.
Kentmere 100 / 400 you can get now as AgfaPhoto APX New 100 / 400, Fotoimpex CHM 100 / 400, Oriental 100 / 400, and Rollei RPX 100 / 400 are also at least very similar to the Kentmeres (some even say RPX 100 is identical to Kentmere 100, but the 400 is a bit different).
I don't think that is progress for the market.

Really new films with unique characteristics, a different look (like Adox CHS 100 II), that is in my mind progress for us film shooters. Especially as this film is offered in all formats, from 35mm to sheet film, even in special and ultra large formats.

 

[ProviaFan]

I had previously wrote a post questioning the benefit of this film under the assumption it was old stock. However Bellamy has updated his article on this film and included the following:

"This is also not an ‘old stock’ film or a ‘pancake’ that was kicking around a ‘dusty warehouse’. This is a freshly produced emulsion with an expiry date of 2020. The film was no longer being produced and I had it put back into production. And for the record, this is not re-spooled Rollei Retro 400s."

I think if the comments saying it is old stock are based on the jargon in his original write-up then this should be sufficient evidence that it is new production. Hopefully this thread can help clear some of the confusion on the film. I wish Bellamy the best of luck in this endeavor.

 

[newsgrunt]

this tidbit is very interesting.

"JCH StreetPan 400 has a gelatine back coating to prevent scratches on the back of the film which could be picked-up by image scanners.

Base substrate layers provide permanent anti-static properties to the film, at exposure and after processing."

 

[DominikDUK]

I had previously wrote a post questioning the benefit of this film under the assumption it was old stock. However Bellamy has updated his article on this film and included the following:

"This is also not an ‘old stock’ film or a ‘pancake’ that was kicking around a ‘dusty warehouse’. This is a freshly produced emulsion with an expiry date of 2020. The film was no longer being produced and I had it put back into production. And for the record, this is not re-spooled Rollei Retro 400s."

I think if the comments saying it is old stock are based on the jargon in his original write-up then this should be sufficient evidence that it is new production. Hopefully this thread can help clear some of the confusion on the film. I wish Bellamy the best of luck in this endeavor.

Thank you for the info

 

[mani]

Some leftover raw film (probably pancakes) is just cut and spooled into 35mm cassettes.
Usual business of rebadging companies for years.

Sorry friends, but how ridiculous ist that film?? Leftover film stock from a corner in a warehouse, which has absolutely no future, because that film type will never be produced again.
When the stock is depleted, its over for this film!

"This is also not an ‘old stock’ film or a ‘pancake’ that was kicking around a ‘dusty warehouse’. This is a freshly produced emulsion with an expiry date of 2020. The film was no longer being produced and I had it put back into production. And for the record, this is not re-spooled Rollei Retro 400s."

I'm confused by the statements that have been thrown around in this thread, and by the general response that Bellamy received when releasing a film.

 

[newsgrunt]

I understand the people who are skeptical and while I appreciate new films coming to market, I also understand the fear that another film (that may not bring anything new to the table) could dilute the pool further. How this will play out as it affects other manufacturers is still to be seen.

I've still got a 1000' foot roll of b/w surveillance film (on the grainy side and looks old school) so this is not something I'll be buying.