New Leica M lenses Not made in Germany!

Chavo

Chavo

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Hi All,

I have some very reliable information that has told us that the NEW M lens elements are coming out of a factory in Asia :eek:. This is why they are able to drop the price and even consider producing new M lenses when they are already in a backorder situation!
I know many Zeiss lens elements are produced in a factory in mainland China maybe Leica is going down that path as well.

Anyone else heard similar?

Cheers Chavo
 
Chavo said:
Hi All,

I have some very reliable information that has told us that the NEW M lens elements are coming out of a factory in Asia :eek:. This is why they are able to drop the price and even consider producing new M lenses when they are already in a backorder situation!
I know many Zeiss lens elements are produced in a factory in mainland China maybe Leica is going down that path as well.

Anyone else heard similar?

Cheers Chavo
Click to expand...

Is this such a bad thing? If they continue producing the posh models at double the price and these cheaper models with elements from Asia that should keep everyone happy. If you would rather buy a lens with elements ground in Germany, you can.

And you can really tell that those new Zeiss ZM lenses have Asian elements too. The lack of distortion, the almost entirely uniform resolution across the frame, total absence of flare .....:D

To me, the quality of assembly is the main issue wrt guaranteeing performance from unit to unit and also durability. I am very pleased Leica has gone down this road as production of parts in Asia and QC and assembly in Germany could be a killer combination.....
 
I guess it's only a matter of minutes before people start complaining that Leica has finally jumped the shark.
 
I thought Leica had always bought lens elements from an outside supplier. Then they do the final grinding and lens assembly themselves.
 
My intention is not Leica bashing, far from it I own both Cosina and Leica lenses and have used the Zeiss ZM lenses love them all. Just asking the question? The source is a from a person who has never given me wrong information and has access to many factories in China. I also have access to very good inside information :D. Let me throw this one out there, Mr K is on record as saying he would never produce M mount cameras..... maybe that digital Bessa is not such a pipedream after all. You never know.
Though I do feel that it is kind of misleading when a product says proudly MADE IN GERMANY and it is not really. Top end gear comes out of China that is happily sold as chinese and so it should be. Maybe I should have said what are your thoughts at this trend. Would Leica owners buy and pay a premium price for B+W or Heilopan filters if they were Hoya (tokina) glass and it was not clear the manufacture origins?

Cheers Chavo ( I have been put back in my cage :()
 
ClaremontPhoto said:
I thought Leica had always bought lens elements from an outside supplier. Then they do the final grinding and lens assembly themselves.
Click to expand...


Leica buys their glass blanks from outside sources, just like everyone else. Elements have always been ground in Germany or Canada.

Leica used to havea reaseach lab, where they cooked up glass types, but I'm not sure how much glass was produced by themselves.

Personally I don't care where the elements are made, as long as the lens performs to Leica's specification. It's the optical design and quality control that make their lenses what they are.

We are in a global economy now and Asian factories are capable of turning out goods with a very high level of precision. If this is what it takes for Leica to survive, then so it be. The rest or the world is pretty much already operating like this.

The Leica-R 4/35-70 Macro is made to Leica specifications in Japan. It is an exceptionally good lens and actually quite affordable.
 
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Does it matter?

Does it matter?

I never trusted these reliable unnamed sources of information.
This is such a common practice on the news media when someone
wants to spread unreliable information.
Ultimately it is the quality of lenses that matters and not there and who made them.
They could be made on the moon, for that matter,
and if they are good to my taste then I will use them.
Zeiss Ikon and the ZM lenses received a lot bashing on the Internet when thety were announced, mainly by the “holiday” Leica users, that no way they can match

the “Leica quality” because they are made in China...
When the smoke settled down many people who use Ikon and ZM Lenses saw that they are as good if not better photographic tools than Leica.
Anyway, all that matters is whether the summarits have good optical and mechanical characteristics, and not the “made in label”.
My opinion!


Zoran
 
>Elements have always been ground in Germany or Canada.

Leica have sourced their aspherical elements from Hoya for all asph lenses (after the 35/1.4 aspherical the original one with two aspherical elements) and they are hot pressed, not ground.

Leica had a glass production lab but shut it down (I think in the 1980s, I'd have to check) - the refractive index of the glass is extremely high and the cooling time is incredibly long (years). This is probably why the 75/1.4 was discontinued - the glass ran out. The Noctilux has some of one of these custom glasses in it too - that lens might be produced so slowly to preserve the small store of this glass that Leica has.

I don't care if the Summarit elements are made in Timbuktu - if they're QA'd to the current standards and assembled properly the lenses will be great. We've tolerated cameras made of components made in in Portugal for some time, so whatever.

Please reveal the source of this 'reliable information'.

Marty
 
Freakscene said:
Leica have sourced their aspherical elements from Hoya for all asph lenses (after the 35/1.4 aspherical the original one with two aspherical elements) and they are hot pressed, not ground.
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They are molded, that's correct. The method has been co-invented by
Leitz and Hoya, that's correct. The are not "sourced" from Hoya.

Doesn't matter where it's made, price, quality and performance matter,
and the price is too high for me - independent of origin of manufacture.

BTW, the Leica M8 has pieces from Japan, US and Germany, among
others ... Just like my Mercedes. The M8's most expensive piece
comes for the US.
 
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I frankly don't see this as a relevant piece of information. Lots of Leicas had the "Made in Canada" stamped on the back, and they're around just like the ones with the "Made in Germany" stamp. If these lenses say "Made in China" or "Made in Germany"... what's the problem? I frankly don't see any.

Neither do I see any attempt at misleading the customer. It's not like the "new lens announcement" says that the lenses are going to be made in Germany.
 
ferider said:
The other side, Mike, thousands of miles away :)
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Whew, that's good news. My biggest worry is when Budweiser will get out-sourced to some foreign land. It might get too strong a beer-like taste. :)
 
MikeL said:
Whew, that's good news. My biggest worry is when Budweiser will get out-sourced to some foreign land. It might get too strong a beer-like taste. :)
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You mean like the Czech republic ? :D

OK, rant on:

Some of the strictest quality control and most complex manufacturing
techniques in industry are used in semiconductor manufacturing.
Also requiring optics, BTW, orders of magnitude more complex and
stricter in quality requirements than our hobbyist toys. We worry
about l/mm ... They worry about l/um !

2 out of the three top manufacturers (wrt yield) are in Asia, one of
them in Taiwan. Employed optics come from Japan, largely (some from
Zeiss and Leitz sister companies, as well). One of the three
is Chinese (TSMC). All of us use their products and depend
on their quality every day. When we post at RFF, when we
drive a car, etc.

Not adressed at you, Mike, but these ethnically flavored/favored
threads always trigger me ... even though I'm German. I wish we would
stop that.

rant off.
 
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I saw those lenses for sale at popflash, the price is still gigantanormous, which would push me to buy used summicrons any day.

And if zeiss glass elements are made wherever who cares, my zeiss planar eats the upstarts for lunch. Better then the summicron? Not for me to say, but I dont doubt for a moment that the new leica lenses will be awesome none the less, but I wont be interested just because I think that a used summicron is a better value for me.


One more thing, and im not saying this because im in china, or maybe I am, but lately cnn and a few other places have turned china into their main target. Yes things from here sometimes slip through the cracks (more so recently then before but that is a rant for another time) but dont think that things from other places are all that good, I remember when made in usa was reason enough not to buy something....hell the Simpson's even made a joke about it. Moral of the story, dont get hyped up by news too much, plus cnn usually lies and over exaggerates things with "selective" information and half truths.
 
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Avotius said:
I saw those lenses for sale at popflash, the price is still gigantanormous, which would push me to buy used summicrons any day.

.
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These are launch prices and genuine USA products. After bedding in and when they are available grey market, they may be substantially cheaper. Within 12 months theyt will be reasonably available used I would have thought and one must assume proportionately cheaper compared to 'Crons. Does not always work like this, so we will have to hope.

I for one am still waiting for the Zeiss 21 4.5 ZM to dip below the price of the 2.8, which - although it is early days - I am disappointed it has not yet done.
 
My understanding is that worldwide there are about 200 glass types that can make high quality lenses. The new lenses will be asked to do less than the Summicron and Summilux counterparts.

Leica brand is synomous with high quality and I don't think they'll ship production to China. The last thing we need is lead in the black paint.
 
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