New Leica Statement

infocusf8@earthlink. said:
. . . this move is a power move. Leica wants to be Leica again with no outside ownership or representation which includes an outsider CEO. Firing Lee was the first step in restructuring the company to more aggressively move into the digital market.

There will soon be a more aggressive marketing of the M8 which involves customer loaner programs of the camera to allow photogs to try out the camera before purchasing. What has consistantly sold this camera has been ease of use and image quality- so the trial program to get it into the hands of prospective buyers.

Leica wants to develop more boutiques in stores and improve delivery of products. They also want to step up development of product. . . .
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This ties in quite closely with my own reading of the situation. But of course I could be wrong.

I hope you'll forgive me for cutting the quote into paragraphs -- I found the solid block a bit hard to read.

Cheers,

R.
 
The USA as a low cost, internationally competitive manufactuirng location
+plus high workers productivity
+high rate of innovation
+plus proven history and attitude of dealing with issues pragmatically and effectively
+sound demographics

Doesn't sound to bad to me! :)
Long term, I'd rather be concerned about Europe's economic perspective. :(
 
sitemistic said:
The challenge will be that while there is no competition in the boutique rangefinder market, there is strong competition in the professional digital camera market.
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Mot much competition in the digital rangefinder market, though...

Cheers,

R.
 
Boutique and the Pro

Boutique and the Pro

It's hard to position a camera as both a boutique product and a serious professional product. Since Lee's direction, with the web site and such, appeared to be toward the boutique, perhaps the owner, in firing him, wants to position the digital Leica as a serious professional tool. I think that would be a good thing for professionals.

The challenge will be that while there is no competition in the boutique rangefinder market, there is strong competition in the professional digital camera market. All we can do is wait and see how committed the current owner is to the serious photographer.

Sitemistic have you ever been to a Leica Boutique store? If you have you know that what it offers more choices for photographers to choose from in both new and used Leica rangefinder equipment. One can quibble over the choice of words for the entity but what it does is more positive than you are attributing it to.
 
sitemistic said:
It's good Leica still has some true believers.
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Believe it or not the last few days has swayed me a lot. I have been using my old canon ae1 a lot and loving it then I was looking at some other....evil....things, some digital.....then all this snort about the future of Leica. I can afford it....but I have to say lately more and more, despite my leica lust, I have to think this might just be one big mistake to get an m8 right now. Maybe a nice m2 or m6 to play with for a while and then focus more on my digital fluff. Hard choices to be made I guess. Doesnt that new full frame sony digital with a 24-70 zeiss lens sounds tasty?
 
sitemistic said:
infocus, I know what a Leica boutique store is. But new Leica M's are also boutique cameras, in the other definition and that's what I was addressing.

I have also posted before that I think Leica can sell cameras at any price. There are people who are willing to pay any price to own a new Leica. The concern is that there just aren't enough of them, as total sales of the M8 seem to confirm. I just don't know what kind of marketing would change that. The fact that it takes almost $7,000 to get into a basic M8 system is hard to overcome with marketing.
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Hey! :) You seem to know the figures for M8 sales. Would you care to share them with us, as up to now they are a well-kept secret.
 
No matter what Leica does or doesn't do today, tomorrow, or in the future is really of no concern due to the fact that most of us won't be able to afford it anyway!


I don't care how much money Dr. Kauffman has he won't continue to pour good money after bad.

Let's all just go use what we have right now.........
 
Avotius said:
Believe it or not the last few days has swayed me a lot. I have been using my old canon ae1 a lot and loving it then I was looking at some other....evil....things, some digital.....then all this snort about the future of Leica. I can afford it....but I have to say lately more and more, despite my leica lust, I have to think this might just be one big mistake to get an m8 right now. Maybe a nice m2 or m6 to play with for a while and then focus more on my digital fluff. Hard choices to be made I guess. Doesnt that new full frame sony digital with a 24-70 zeiss lens sounds tasty?
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I don't see the advantage of a full frame sensor with a zoom lens. There is no "natural" focal length to deal with. It only really matters with fixed focal length lenses. Why do you care if a camera with a zoom lens has a cropped or FF sensor?

/T
 
Tuolumne said:
I don't see the advantage of a full frame sensor with a zoom lens. There is no "natural" focal length to deal with. It only really matters with fixed focal length lenses. Why do you care if a camera with a zoom lens has a cropped or FF sensor?

/T
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Just one option thats all. And for the record there are some very competent zoom lenses, the canon 70-200 2.8 IS and canon 24-70 come to mind. Also I like the 24-70 range, and the 17-40 lens on my 20D is not all that great (compared to the 24-70 on a 5d or any old prime) so....yeah, its all good. And I got the 17-40 to be a 17-40, and well...the reason are numerous and I have my reasons for it, plus film, the real full frame, those were my favorite lengths to use.
 
sitemistic said:
It's hard to position a camera as both a boutique product and a serious professional product.
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Because funny professional products are easier to sell. Ever seen a 1200mm lens? Now, that's funny.
 
If Leica wanted professional photo user endoresements I'm sure they could get them. First of all, some pros do use M8s. Perhaps not for photojournalism, but certainly for their fine art, maybe weddings, etc. Seond, if Leica gave some promotional cameras to pros and paid them for their endoremenst (and don't think for a second that Canon and Nikon don't do that) they could get as many endoresemnts as they wanted. It just seems that they don't care about them. Or maybe their marketing dept. is incompetent, or being given incompetent orders. (As witness their ridiculous Web site).

/T
 
georgef said:
Do you really think LEICA introducing a FF sensor in the M system will adversely grow their sales?...really?
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Yes, if it means paying 6000$ and if it's the only alternative.

As much as I hate talking about marketing and about "what Leica should do", I think Leica would benefit to produce a small cheap camera ala CL priced at 2500$, a M8 priced at 4000$ and a M9 FF priced at 6500$.

Something for everyone.
 
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Your Point

Your Point

I just don't know what kind of marketing would change that.

sitemistic the point is that you don't know and you continue with conjecture, uninformed and unfamiliar opinions that are always negative about the M8. You fill these forums with your views that really amount to nothing that really adds to a discussion about the M8 and is not helpful to anyone at all. For instance you say on one hand that Leica will not have a loaner program then make a statement like the above when someone calls you on it. Do you buy a car without driving the demo? How important is it to get the car or the camera into the hands of the potential buyer? Do you know anything about selling at all? If your not willing to stand behind your statements how credible do you really think you are? If your not willing to bet money on your statement then how about another wager? If Leica does not start a loaner program then I will leave this forum and never return, not even under another name. If they do start a loaner program then you leave and never return.
Remember sitmistic nature gave you two ears and one mouth so you can listen twice as much as you speak a practice you may well want to
start.
 
What they say about opinions

What they say about opinions

infocus, I don't care whether you consider me credible or not. I just express my opinion. Most of the posts on the forum are opinion and conjecture. We are not trying to resolve issues of international importance here.

No sitemistic I don't consider you credible at all. You know the saying about opinions, however, some are informed and others are not, and if you choose to disagree with someone who is informed, by expressing an uninformed opinion, you better be able to back it up, issues of international importance or not, you have routinely insulted and heckled M8 users on this forum with your uninformed opinions. Your negativity about the M8 has grown weary much as the relative who has stayed too long or the party crasher who becomes annoying. I'll probably get kicked off here for posting this but to be honest it will be a blessing to not have to read your drivel.
 
I wish you guys would stop beating up SM. Take a look at the IDC numbers for dSLRs sold in 2006 (in the Erwin Puts thread). Leica makes up a vanishingly small number. What's wrong with someone pointing that out? It means they have their work cut out for them.

/T
 
Tuolumne said:
If Leica wanted professional photo user endoresements I'm sure they could get them. First of all, some pros do use M8s. Perhaps not for photojournalism, but certainly for their fine art, maybe weddings, etc. Seond, if Leica gave some promotional cameras to pros and paid them for their endoremenst (and don't think for a second that Canon and Nikon don't do that) they could get as many endoresemnts as they wanted. It just seems that they don't care about them. Or maybe their marketing dept. is incompetent, or being given incompetent orders. (As witness their ridiculous Web site).

/T
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Pros do use Leica's today

Constantine Manos

I'm sure you can find more with a little research....
 
sitemistic said:
What I find more interesting than the fact he is using a Leica is that most of his stuff has great depth of field, probably shot at f8 or so. This is a man for whom the tool has become transparent and it is his vision we are seeing. Great stuff.
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Agreed, he has great vision that surpasses the bulk of the crop here.

I think what we should all see here in this thread is that we should be out shooting photos with what we got then theorizing leica's future. If they disappear, you already got (or can easily get) their stuff, if they dont ok fine, either way the used market is the place to buy and popflash doesn't seem to be going anywhere, there are a lot of products out there to use. I dont think Leica will be our rangefinder digital savior. My fingers are crossed that zeiss will partner with someone like sony (with their konica minolta assets) with their great sensor technology and pump out a great rangefinder we can enjoy.
 
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