New member/Barnack Leica identification help

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gokullm

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Hey guys, I've been reading posts in the forum but I figured I create an account to say hello and ask for some help. I picked up what I believe is a IIIC "red curtain" based on a serial number of 367690. Everything looks good except for the eyepieces on the back bring separate for viewfinder and rangefinder. I have only seen this on a IIIA. Can't you guys help me identify what I have here.

http://imgur.com/gallery/qnGSkSC
 
Not even remotely an expert but that also has the diopter adjustment where it should be for a IIIc. On a III or IIIa it would be on the eyepiece itself. It is a stepper top and the area around the rangefinder eyepiece is different as I haven't seen that bulge before.

Shawn
 
I've never seen such a camera before in my life. It is a IIIc for sure, but the eyepiece seems to be adapted. Maybe the owner had problems with the IIIc finder and someone changed the eyepiece in something that looks like a IIIa or a IIIb finder. Wonderful.


Erik.
 
Erik van Straten said:
I've never seen such a camera before in my life. It is a IIIc for sure, but the eyepiece seems to be adapted. Maybe the owner had problems with the IIIc finder and someone changed the eyepiece in something that looks like a IIIa or a IIIb finder. Wonderful.


Erik.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, the bulge could be covering the extra space for the original eyepiece. Could also be why the trim rings on the front of the RF/VF are different.

Shawn
 
IIIc stepper for sure, but the eyepieces...They don't look like Leitz at all. So someone has taken an unused top housing and modified it. Indeed the whole r/f inside will be like a III ...probably. That 'someone' must have been Leitz accredited to have the serial number engraved...so maybe factory.

I wonder, can you look through the camera OK or are these mods for some serious sort of eye defect and everything is out of focus?
 
shawn said:
That makes sense, the bulge could be covering the extra space for the original eyepiece. Could also be why the trim rings on the front of the RF/VF are different.

Shawn
Click to expand...

The internals have to be different too.

The normal lllc has a Viewfinder that utilises a prism to correct the closer together eyepiece placement, (from the lllb onwards) This one had to adapt a straight through and simpler reverse Galilean type viewfinder like on the Leica lll and llla.

I wonder if it was a specially made camera with a (maybe changeable too) VF eyepiece for longer lenses, like for surveillance use in police work.
 
Wow, ya'll are quick on the replies. Looking through the rangefinder it seems to operate as normal, albeit a bit dim due to the mirror degrading. The shutter release has this conical collar screwed on that when removed shows the original button. Having never seen anything like it, I was concerned it may be a clone but I didn't think there were clones with a "stepper" and the roller cam inside for focusing.

If there is a safe way to take this apart to find more clues I'd love to do so, but I don't want to risk more damage if this is a rare one-off camera.
 
gokullm said:
Wow, ya'll are quick on the replies. Looking through the rangefinder it seems to operate as normal, albeit a bit dim due to the mirror degrading. The shutter release has this conical collar screwed on that when removed shows the original button. Having never seen anything like it, I was concerned it may be a clone but I didn't think there were clones with a "stepper" and the roller cam inside for focusing.

If there is a safe way to take this apart to find more clues I'd love to do so, but I don't want to risk more damage if this is a rare one-off camera.
Click to expand...

I would get it pro CLAed and get the RF 50/50 mirror replaced.

It would be worth the price of admission.
 
I didn't plan on shooting with the camera due to the "historical" significance so I figured leaving it in its current condition.
 
gokullm said:
I didn't plan on shooting with the camera due to the "historical" significance so I figured leaving it in its current condition.
Click to expand...

It still would be "historical"... fully functional "historical" is much more desirable, to own, as pride of ownership... or even to sell.

No different than say a vintage Vincent Black Shadow motorcycle, one restored that you can ride on is much more of a joy than one that needs restoration sitting on a stand in some dark garage gathering cob-webs and layers of dust, just my two cents.
 
xayraa33 said:
It still would be "historical"... fully functional "historical" is much more desirable, to own, as pride of ownership... or even to sell.

No different than say a vintage Vincent Black Shadow motorcycle, one restored that you can ride on is much more of a joy than one that needs restoration sitting on a stand in some dark garage gathering cob-webs and layers of dust, just my two cents.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the suggestion, I am going to do as much research as I can just to verify this is a legit IIIC before spending more $$$ on a CLA and mirror.
 
splitimageview said:
I’d suggest contacting Jim Lager...if anyone has seen something like this before, it’s likely to be him...
Click to expand...

I have sent a few emails to Dan Tamarkin who I believe is an officer of LHSA. He believes it's a legit IIIC and wants to enter it in the fall auction of his. If you can help me get in contact with Jim Lager I would love to shoot him a couple emails.
 
Hi,

You were wondering about it being legit; from (say) the forgers point of view it would be very difficult and hardly profitable to forge the die cast body of a Leica IIIc onwards. They are not like the previous version of the Barnacks that could be forged using a FED and some simple cosmetic changes to fool newcomers.

My money, for what it's worth, is on it being a modified or older RF and top cover. Being modular there's lot of unofficial variations and people in the works could have done it when desperate for parts in the 40's. Or it's a repair done unofficially for a friend...

Regards, David
 
Here is an update to my search. I emailed Sam from Classic Connection and he was able to dig up the following:

"Leica number 367690 was completed as a red curtain IIIc and shipped to agent Nordisk Kopenhagen on 16.12.40.
Written incorrectly as LOODU ( IIIb with Summitar) .
The inside number should be 367690 on the bearing plate. I suspect it may not be there,.
In my opinion this is a camera that has reworked ( to say the least ) .
It looks like some mechanic has installed a II/III/IIIa rf/vf system into the place where the proper IIIc components fit. Crazy!
I have never seen this before.I think someone got this camera in bad shape and tried to make a working unit with whatever parts they
could locate.
The lens is Tokyo Optical copy of the 5cm Elmar. I think this later became Topcon. A curiosity!
Cheers,
LeicaSam"

If anyone knows how to open it up and look at the bearing plate I'd love to confirm what camera I really have.
 
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