krkmpshooter
Newbie
Hello all. I am new to the forum (after lurking for some time), new to RF's and film as I have recently purchased an MP. I am looking for some tips/advice on using the MP. I am going to use the MP this weekend to document the POW/MIA ride in DC after some practice/testing this week.
My kit includes the following:
MP
35 and 50 'Crons
Yellow/red filters
ND filter
Being a new user of the MP would you mind sharing your thoughts on the following:
1) Best practices and techniques for a new Leica shooter.
2) Best practices and techniques for shooting film after a long lay off (20 plus years) in digital land. Especially getting the correct exposure/ using aperture and shutter speed settings.
3) How and when to use the ND filter correctly.
Thanks
My kit includes the following:
MP
35 and 50 'Crons
Yellow/red filters
ND filter
Being a new user of the MP would you mind sharing your thoughts on the following:
1) Best practices and techniques for a new Leica shooter.
2) Best practices and techniques for shooting film after a long lay off (20 plus years) in digital land. Especially getting the correct exposure/ using aperture and shutter speed settings.
3) How and when to use the ND filter correctly.
Thanks
Tim Gray
Well-known
Wow I just wrote up a long response and the board ate it. Oh well, I'm not going to retype it all. I'm assuming you are shooting B&W film from the filter comments.
Leave the ND filter and the red filter at home. Heck, leave the yellow filter at home until you get a better feel for B&W film. I'd actually leave the 50mm lens at home too. Get comfortable with one lens first. Also, you won't be constantly changing lenses, you'll be taking pictures instead. The 35 is a good focal length as your only one.
Set the shutter speed to something useable (1/125 or 1/250) and fine tune exposure with the aperture. Try not to go below 1/60 or 1/30 until you get a better feel for it. Try not to constantly be changing the shutter speed at first.
The MP has a fat spot/narrow center-weighted meter. Keep that in mind. Err on the side of overexposure. Metering and exposure is a huge topic, so I'm not really going to get into it. For now, just use what the internal meter tells you and accept the fact that you're going to have some imperfect exposures sometimes. Google Sunny-16. If the light is good and consistent, realize you don't have to set the exposure for every shot. A meter reading off of something neutral gray will suffice for most of your shots if the light doesn't change.
It's easy to do centered compositions at first with an RF, due to the focus point placement. Think about not succumbing to it. Don't worry about focus and recompose errors - technically it will happen, but just ignore it if you are stopped down a little bit and not at minimum focus distance.
If the light is good, load up some ISO 400 film and use a small aperture (around f/11). The large DOF can be useful. You can prefocus your lens according to your situation - around 2m works well for a lot of people situations. Then you just take a picture with out focusing - it's a very quick way to shoot.
If the shutter button is half depressed in your bag, the batteries will run out quick. To avoid this, know that you can put the shutter dial on B/off and the meter will be disabled.
Leave the ND filter and the red filter at home. Heck, leave the yellow filter at home until you get a better feel for B&W film. I'd actually leave the 50mm lens at home too. Get comfortable with one lens first. Also, you won't be constantly changing lenses, you'll be taking pictures instead. The 35 is a good focal length as your only one.
Set the shutter speed to something useable (1/125 or 1/250) and fine tune exposure with the aperture. Try not to go below 1/60 or 1/30 until you get a better feel for it. Try not to constantly be changing the shutter speed at first.
The MP has a fat spot/narrow center-weighted meter. Keep that in mind. Err on the side of overexposure. Metering and exposure is a huge topic, so I'm not really going to get into it. For now, just use what the internal meter tells you and accept the fact that you're going to have some imperfect exposures sometimes. Google Sunny-16. If the light is good and consistent, realize you don't have to set the exposure for every shot. A meter reading off of something neutral gray will suffice for most of your shots if the light doesn't change.
It's easy to do centered compositions at first with an RF, due to the focus point placement. Think about not succumbing to it. Don't worry about focus and recompose errors - technically it will happen, but just ignore it if you are stopped down a little bit and not at minimum focus distance.
If the light is good, load up some ISO 400 film and use a small aperture (around f/11). The large DOF can be useful. You can prefocus your lens according to your situation - around 2m works well for a lot of people situations. Then you just take a picture with out focusing - it's a very quick way to shoot.
If the shutter button is half depressed in your bag, the batteries will run out quick. To avoid this, know that you can put the shutter dial on B/off and the meter will be disabled.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Brilliant advice, Tim. And commiserations concerning the message-eating board.
All I'd add for the OP is: don't overshoot. You've only got 36 exposures on a roll. This seemed like a lot in the 1930s, but when you're used to 100+ shots on an SD card, the end of the roll can arrive unexpectedly suddenly.
Cheers,
R.
All I'd add for the OP is: don't overshoot. You've only got 36 exposures on a roll. This seemed like a lot in the 1930s, but when you're used to 100+ shots on an SD card, the end of the roll can arrive unexpectedly suddenly.
Cheers,
R.
Vincent.G
Well-known
Learn to load, rewind and unload film CORRECTLY.
krkmpshooter
Newbie
Film types
Film types
I will be shooting both b+w and color film.
Film types
I will be shooting both b+w and color film.
Chuck Albertson
Well-known
Second that. Dropping the film into the camera like it shows on the diagram at the base of the camera (with the base plate off) works every time, but make sure you see the two dots on the rewind knob turning when you advance the film.
The metering system is spot on. I use my MP to shoot Kodachrome all the time (adjusting as necessary for unusually bright/dark subjects) and get great results.
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
The new Leica shooter should do pretty much what he did more than twenty years in the past.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
I second that. Shooting digital in manual mode effectively is all it takes to get decent results with a film M. Should be easy as pie when you shot film twenty years ago!
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Yes, those times when filters worked better near the lenses than at home...
Cheers,
Juan
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
1) Remove lens cap.
marcr1230
Well-known
My kids get a good laugh out of it when I leave it on
I'll second the suggestion to tighten the slack in the roll after loading and closing and then watch the red dots move as you scroll up to the first frame
one lens is more than enough at first, and remember to focus on the patch, not outside of it
krkmpshooter
Newbie
Just wanted to clarify my photography experience. It consists of using Kodak and other film cameras growing up. Over the past five years I have used various point and shoot digital cameras and most recently used a Panasonic GF1 micro four thirds set up. So all in all not a lot of extensive use of film.
Turtle
Veteran
I have one tip that will save your bacon at least once in the next few years. I urge you to read it and take it in:
Before you load a new roll of film, hold the leader and twist the spindle to tension the film inside the cassette. Now when you pull some out and put it into the take up spool, close the back, put on the base and wind and fire a couple of frames, you will soon see the two red dots on the rewind axle spin. This confirms film is going thru the camera.
When there is slack inside the film cassette (i.e the film is not tightly wound inside) the film being passed onto the take up spool (and being exposed) is from slack and NOT causing the two red dots to rotate due to the film spindle moving. This means that when you do not take up the slack before shooting it can take as many as 6-10 frames of actual shooting before the dots start moving. if you have mis-loaded the film and it slips off the take up, you will not know until 6-10 shots later, assuming you even remember to check the red dots when engrossed in the action. A couple of times in the past, I have not done what I have said and paid the price. Now it is habit. I tension EVERY roll going inside and confirm the red dots are moving before continuing with actual shooting. When a roll refuses to tension (i.e unravels inside after I have done it). I check the red dots are moving after the first half dozen frames.
If for whatever reason you are not sure the film is moving (it should feel heavier with film being transported, but some films seem to glide through) just fire off one frame and check the red dots rotate. If you are half way thru a roll and they do not, your film aint moving!
I agree with the advice above. Shoot the 35mm alone and get stuck in! If it is bright and contrasty you might want to knock 1/2 to 2/3 stops off the box film speed i.e. shoot TriX at 320 or 250.
Do not buy into the BS about shallow aperture everything 'because Leica lenses are so good wide open'. They are, but zone focusing is liberating and fun... and gets results focusing cannot. Sure at f11, your lens won't deliver its very best, but the shots might be the very best you can deliver!
Get in close when you can and have fun with the movement. Use instinct and go with the flow of movement. dont try to compose everything perfectly. Just let things happen.
Personally, if there will be blue skies about, put the yellow filter on. If there are no bright blue skies, don't bother. You will lose far less that the 1 stop claimed and gain a bit more clarity to area under open sky and get more tone in the skies.
With metering, if you have bright skies or backlit scenes and you are in any doubt, tilt the camera downwards to 75% below horizon and meter again. Its better to have dense skies than no shadows!
Have lots of fun. Picking things up again will all be at your own pace, but you'll stop long before the end if you stop having fun.
Re the ditital age solution, there are so many answers to that I wont even start!
Before you load a new roll of film, hold the leader and twist the spindle to tension the film inside the cassette. Now when you pull some out and put it into the take up spool, close the back, put on the base and wind and fire a couple of frames, you will soon see the two red dots on the rewind axle spin. This confirms film is going thru the camera.
When there is slack inside the film cassette (i.e the film is not tightly wound inside) the film being passed onto the take up spool (and being exposed) is from slack and NOT causing the two red dots to rotate due to the film spindle moving. This means that when you do not take up the slack before shooting it can take as many as 6-10 frames of actual shooting before the dots start moving. if you have mis-loaded the film and it slips off the take up, you will not know until 6-10 shots later, assuming you even remember to check the red dots when engrossed in the action. A couple of times in the past, I have not done what I have said and paid the price. Now it is habit. I tension EVERY roll going inside and confirm the red dots are moving before continuing with actual shooting. When a roll refuses to tension (i.e unravels inside after I have done it). I check the red dots are moving after the first half dozen frames.
If for whatever reason you are not sure the film is moving (it should feel heavier with film being transported, but some films seem to glide through) just fire off one frame and check the red dots rotate. If you are half way thru a roll and they do not, your film aint moving!
I agree with the advice above. Shoot the 35mm alone and get stuck in! If it is bright and contrasty you might want to knock 1/2 to 2/3 stops off the box film speed i.e. shoot TriX at 320 or 250.
Do not buy into the BS about shallow aperture everything 'because Leica lenses are so good wide open'. They are, but zone focusing is liberating and fun... and gets results focusing cannot. Sure at f11, your lens won't deliver its very best, but the shots might be the very best you can deliver!
Get in close when you can and have fun with the movement. Use instinct and go with the flow of movement. dont try to compose everything perfectly. Just let things happen.
Personally, if there will be blue skies about, put the yellow filter on. If there are no bright blue skies, don't bother. You will lose far less that the 1 stop claimed and gain a bit more clarity to area under open sky and get more tone in the skies.
With metering, if you have bright skies or backlit scenes and you are in any doubt, tilt the camera downwards to 75% below horizon and meter again. Its better to have dense skies than no shadows!
Have lots of fun. Picking things up again will all be at your own pace, but you'll stop long before the end if you stop having fun.
Re the ditital age solution, there are so many answers to that I wont even start!
Tim Gray
Well-known
My first roll on a Leica (after shooting pretty much full auto on Canon film and digital SLRs) was underexposed with horrible framing. I mistook the 35 frame lines for the 50 ones. I was using a 50 at the time, so everything was too far away. Oh well, you learn fast
Good tip about the lens cap. And watching the rewind knob move as you advance to the next frame.
Good tip about the lens cap. And watching the rewind knob move as you advance to the next frame.
t.s.k.
Hooked on philm
The suggestion to bring only the 35 cron is a good one. For many, it's a bit quicker handling, but YMMV of course. It also can eliminate the need for a bag as you'll have the entire kit in your hand ( and at eye level, right? ) the whole time.
Oh, lest I forget to add...don't lose or drop the camera
Have fun!
Oh, lest I forget to add...don't lose or drop the camera
Have fun!
icebear
Veteran
Have you bought yourself a user MP or a NIB with 2 or 3 roll through it ?
Be happy with a user, the new one really needs some 50 rolls until everything is starting to run buttery smooth. At the beginning the MP is a bit edgy. E.g. the transport lever needs to be swung all the way 100%, 99.5% won't let the shutter fire the next shot. You press the shutter and nothing happens, you move the lever again the last bit of a degree and you're good to shoot. Until you get this point, you might be asking yourself:"Heck what the *^&*$ with Mechanical Perfection ?"
Enjoy shooting, this camera is exactly doing what your want it to do, nothing less but also nothing more - you are back in charge. And yes one lens, no filter for a start. You're going out to learn, not to get the most artistic shots of your life.
Be happy with a user, the new one really needs some 50 rolls until everything is starting to run buttery smooth. At the beginning the MP is a bit edgy. E.g. the transport lever needs to be swung all the way 100%, 99.5% won't let the shutter fire the next shot. You press the shutter and nothing happens, you move the lever again the last bit of a degree and you're good to shoot. Until you get this point, you might be asking yourself:"Heck what the *^&*$ with Mechanical Perfection ?"
Enjoy shooting, this camera is exactly doing what your want it to do, nothing less but also nothing more - you are back in charge
. And yes one lens, no filter for a start. You're going out to learn, not to get the most artistic shots of your life.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
I would reinforce the 35 cron - that's my favourite lens on my MP. My particular example seems to overexpose colour film by at least one stop, but yours could be different, experience will tell.
In street situations, I set f8 and 1/60 and then juggle the aperture if needed to get correct exposure indication. If I'm shooting XP2, I will live with +2 stops over if it means I get the shot. I can handhold the MP down to 1/8 (years of rifle duty), so you may need to set 1/125 if your hands are not so steady.
Above all, don't forget to enjoy the experience - worrying about all the minute technical details will not improve your photography
In street situations, I set f8 and 1/60 and then juggle the aperture if needed to get correct exposure indication. If I'm shooting XP2, I will live with +2 stops over if it means I get the shot. I can handhold the MP down to 1/8 (years of rifle duty), so you may need to set 1/125 if your hands are not so steady.
Above all, don't forget to enjoy the experience - worrying about all the minute technical details will not improve your photography
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I would reinforce the 35 cron - that's my favourite lens on my MP. My particular example seems to overexpose colour film by at least one stop, but yours could be different, experience will tell.
In street situations, I set f8 and 1/60 and then juggle the aperture if needed to get correct exposure indication. If I'm shooting XP2, I will live with +2 stops over if it means I get the shot. I can handhold the MP down to 1/8 (years of rifle duty), so you may need to set 1/125 if your hands are not so steady.
Above all, don't forget to enjoy the experience - worrying about all the minute technical details will not improve your photography
Dear John,
Be fair! That's the only enjoyment that some people seem to get out of their photography!
Cheers,
R.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
worrying about all the minute technical details will not improve your photography
I understand what you mean... I agree with you in part, but the sentence is not representative of what you mean... "Not only..." is more accurate...
Saying "worrying about all the minute technical details will not improve your photography" is as false as saying "worrying about all the aesthetical details will not improve your photography".
Both contribute, both do improve it, both are necessary together, and generally speaking, both have always concerned the best photographers... And not only in photography... Art has always been respectful of technical skills, from Da Vinci to Freud. Don't forget that apart from their lyricism they are called masters because they cared all their lives about the minute technical details used in their crafts... Some have played a role in which they seem not to care, but only after having really cared and having become masters: Picasso, etc...
Cheers,
Juan
john neal
fallor ergo sum
Juan,
Thanks - I miised that nuance, which is what I was trying to say. You need to be technically competent to a degree, and that is a learning process, but don't obsess on it (I think!)