New NEX-3 + 35mm Skopar

[uhoh7]

I'm sorry, what do you mean by speed?

Compare a 35mm f/1.8 to a 50 f/1.8 in low light. Which will do better? The 35 of course.

So I'd like my nFD 24mm f/2 to be a 24mm not a 36mm.

With a full frame sensor you can always crop back to aps-c size.

This is not to mention the pure sharpness advantage and iso performance of a modern FF sensor.

 

[uhoh7]

Well, if you actually think about that while you're taking a picture.... Man.

The application of abstractions - pure optical mechanics - while you're making a picture works for some folks, I guess. But it's the smallest part of the equation - this loss of T-stop because of a faux-change in focal length.

I'd rather look at the light, the colour, the thing-ness of what it is infront of me that I'm trying to capture. The fact is, 1/2 a stop, a whole stop, three stops even, isn't gonna hold anyone back if they're really trying to make a picture. If the crop-induced theoretical loss of light bothers you - use a "full-frame" sensor. Or get faster glass - it's available. But it doesn't really matter.

Or move relative to the light source. Or, or, or....

All of these "yeah but..." comments are reminiscent of the bull$h1t thrown up by photo editors when folks started using small-format (135) cameras. Cost Gene Smith a job, once. I suggest folks get over it, either use it or don't, and get on with the process of making pictures that are compelling - which has nothing to do with transmission stops, f-stops, sharpness, digital, film, format, or any other of the parameters within which we work.

Not one client, customer, or other photographer has ever said to me while looking at one of my prints, "Gee, looks like you used that 20 on your D2. Turned it into a 30 and lost some light, huh?"

Get real.

I'd like to get real. I'd like my sensor to see the whole lens on my legacy glass. I'd like a 28 to be be a 28. That's just me.

But I'm not alone.

"well if you actually think about that when your taking a picture"

No, dude, I think about it when I'm picking a camera or choosing a lens.

I'd like a light, small mirrorless FF with live view and a short register. Shoot me.

I never said the crop factor should bug everyone, just that it bugs me.

I won't bother to project my pet peeves unto you--obviously you have no such compunctions.

A guy asked if 1.5x bothered anyone and I gave an honest answer. I did not say good images could not be created with an APS-C or a holga for that matter. I did not say gear trumps light, subject or composition--or a good eye. So spare me the rant.

my low light portrait workhorse, canon fl 55mm f/1.2 on nex-5

when it's brighter I prefer the nikon 55mm f/2.8 micro

ohh, but wait, I forgot: gear is immaterial. So I guess I should just throw the nikon out and wash my eyes out with soap. Or I could thow out the canon and use a flash....

 

[uhoh7]

Your legacy glass will be fine with respect to speed. The loss of theoretical speed is not a "real" factor (in practical terms) any more than the idea that 1.5x crop factor sensors actually multiply focal lengths, or digital artifacts in out-of-camera jpegs are completely destructive to an image, or (insert general dissatisfaction here) . It only exists as a function of what is in the frame. The purported loss of a fraction of a stop (technical metric) will not show up in any way shape or form as an impediment to picture taking or a specific lens' value as a component in the image making process (aesthetic endeavour). If, on the other hand, you have preferences as to which lens you use for what subject, because of how it looks, great!

... But of all the things "deficient" in using "full-frame" lenses on 1.5x crop systems, the amount of light getting through the lens isn't one of them. But if you feel that it is, that is your right.

Again, sorry to have touched a nerve. Meanwhile, enjoy the NEX. It looks like a great little camera.

Metta,

OK points taken, armistice.

You are alot more experienced than I am. My professional stuff has been 100 weddings over the last 10 years--but video only. I have never been interested in DSLRs because they are too big for the mainstay of my still stuff, backcountry landscapes. I have been using a lumix super zoom for years, but the noise in the long shots has been just killing me.

you can get the idea of what I've been doing here

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524859&highlight=idaho+extreme

But the Nex is tiny and can come with me anywhere. Finnally I can get some real resoultion out there without a big pack.

The legacy glass is partly nostaligia, I bought a nikkormat and FTb NEW, but lost interest travelling because the locals did not like SLRs pointed at them. I took a clarinet instead, to 44 countries over about 7 years of heavy travel in the 80s. Should have bought a rangefinder.

But as you know, the nex takes any glass. S over the last 6 months I've hand picked about 14 lenses, besides the native emounts, partly because most are fast and will do good low-light video (i also have a VG10), but also for landscapes, candids and indoor work.

Here's the nex with my sigma 8-16mm at 8mm

also found FD 20 and 24 f/2, nikon 28 f/2, Canon and sony 35s, hexanon 40, various 50s, the two 55s above, a 90 bokina, 105 kiron macro, 135s nikon and soligar f/2 and a nikon 180 ais ED.

I figured they are basically money in the bank-- I can always sell them later.

Obviously I'll have to pick my weapons in the backcountry.

BUT as I study up and test, I see how nice a small FF would be with this glass. You say speed is not a factor, but I can slow my shutter with a wider lens and stay steady,

Darin Butler over at prophotohome describes it better than I can:
"Let's assume we have two cameras (a 1Ds and a 20D) each shooting the same scene with a 100mm lens. The 1Ds has a 24x36 mm sensor, and the 20D has a 15x22.5 mm sensor. Let's further assume (using round numbers) that the shutter speed in both cases is 1/100. Finally, assume that while the shutter is open, the photographer's hands twitch to the extent that the camera moves horizontally by an amount we'll call x.

It's easy to see that this movement x has a larger relative effect on the smaller sensor than the bigger one, because x/22.5 is bigger than x/36. In other words, while the shutter is open the field of view of the smaller sensor changes more (in percentage terms) than it does for the bigger sensor. This, of course, means you get a more pronounced blur and loss of sharpness.

What if we set the shutter for the 20D at 1/160? Assuming that the "twitch" moves the camera at the same speed (x per 1/100 second) as in the first example, it will now move a shorter distance due to the faster shutter speed - instead of moving x, it will move x/1.6. Thus, its relative movement now becomes x/(1.6)(22.5), which is the same as x/36 as with the 1Ds. This is why it is appropriate to use the "effective" focal length in the shutter speed rule of thumb"

Now he (and I) may be wrong--let me know if you agree or not.

and with a FF I can print larger and crop better--plus ISO is likely to get alot better, though nex is not bad. That's really all I'm saying.

For me an RF size FF that will take alot of glass would give me more flexiblity with any given lens. I think we will see one within a year. The lecia is nice, but way over my budget.

All the best--hitchhiked to Whitehorse from Skagway in 1979! Well took the old train at first..

 

[uhoh7]

So, the NEX shows up and I'm intrigued. How do you find focusing manual lenses on it? Obviously you're doing a good job of it. Do you use a hood on the display?

Great Post with much food for thought. Very good to know about Genuine Fractals.

The nex has a few things going for it besides the tiny size, aps-c, and adapters for basically every mount.

The LCD is large and extremely high resoulution--912k, (I don't know of another one as high), it flips up and also tilts back so you can shoot from the waist and also overhead. It's sharp enough to focus well in normal magnification, but hit focus assist once for 7x and twice for 14x----and the abiltity to move the box anywhere in the frame.

It senses sunlight and adjusts, but of course there are times when an EVF eye piece would be handly--but rarely.

A few guys make hoods--and pretty soon I think we will see them for sale after market.

The menus are sometimes slammed, but the latest firmware alows mapping of important buttons, and you can get where you want very fast with practice. WHen I fiddle with my friends DSLRs now I find them more of a pain than the nex to adjust settings--but others disagree.

It shoots Raw, Jpeg or both at 7FPS although the buffer fills if you do raw after about 8 frames. Jpeg it will shoot 7 fps forever. It's also a very good video camera.

There will be a slightly large NEX-7 soon and maybe a small nikon FF announced in late spring.

It is extrememly compact with Leica M lenses--very short adapter.

The only annoying thing is that the adapters all go PAST infinity (out of fear they won't go far enough I guess), so you have to watch it.

OIS is only in the two emount zooms, not in the body.

I think it handles well with large lenses--you hold the lens, but others complain it's too small.

The other limitation is the small external flash and lack of std hot-shoe. Since I hate flashes, this is not an issue for me.

Here is the most comprehensive review:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/07/26/sony-nex-3-and-nex-5-digital-camera-review/

It's a hot item and can be tried and resold easily.

Thanks again for the great info,

all the best

Charlie

PS testing with Soligor 135mm f/2:

http://picasaweb.google.com/csvp07/Soligar?authkey=Gv1sRgCOzs0Z_vsKOjYw#5542486158007036370

 

[FPjohn]

uhoh7 and sonofdanah, Charlie and Shane.

Fine dialog!

yours
FPJ

 

[uhoh7]

Yeah, a strobe can be like showing up at a dinner party with a revolver.

Shane

Hehe, I love that line. Have fun out there.

Best,

Charlie

 

[uhoh7]

and now......back to the original topic:

What a piece of kit!

Is it sharp?

Ok find the church:

here it is 100% (no PP straight out)

I didn't expect much indoors....

one last little test shot

In short, the thing is fantastic. I can't believe how well it works. Thanks so much for this thread.

I think I'll just sell all my other 35s

 

[kxl]

Manual focusing is a breeze...

Manual focusing is a breeze...

with one of these magnifiers... While I love my CV 35/1.2 on my ZI, it's just a beast with the NEX. I'm a great fan of the AOV from a 35mm lens, so I would love to get a small 24/25mm lens in the near future. For now, I "make do" with my ZM 21/2.8.

 

[Brad Buszard]

I've kept banging away from time to time with the Skopar, particularly in comparing it to my Contax G-series 45mm. I can't really spot a clear difference between the two in sharpness (which surprised me a great deal).

It's proven itself the perfect combo for travelling light. It's a bit fiddly to focus the thing, but it pays its way through the light weight and small size.

Not to post something *too* huge, this is a random snap I took on a trip to Pamplin historical park in VA a few weeks back. I keep the meter at -1/3 EV, but other than that I only ever have to adjust the ISO rating.

 

[Nokton48]

The 16mm F2.8 MC Rokkor works well on my Nex-3. As well as the 21/2.8, 35/1.8, 50/1.2, 85/1.7, 100/2.5, 135/2.8, and 200/3.5 MC Rokkors. Taking all of them today, to the local botanical garden. I love my Nex-3, but I'm not selling my three M's.

The Canon RF lenses work well, too. Good results with the 35/1.5, the 50/1.2, and the 85/1.5. The 19/3.5 dosen't fit, rear cell is too long, lens won't lock on the body. Fortunately the 21mm F2.8 MC Rokkor is freakin fantastic on the Nex.