Godfrey
somewhat colored
Of course, it would be nice, but probably isn't particularly doable and still make a profit. I doubt they sell vast numbers of these cameras, and the markup cannot be all that big.
G
Emile de Leon
Well-known
15% off....
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I worked for a hardware company for many years and have some, if not a lot of, familiarity with the costs and profitability of manufacturing consumer electronic devices.
Well, gross margin is calculated as "Revenue minus Cost of Good Sold (COGS)". Consumer Electronics Industry standard is approximately 56% across the board, but marketing expenses, staff costs, and other operating expenses are not included in COGS, and neither is the cost of product development. All of those factors add in to calculate net margin, the bottom line of profitability.
Pixii.fr is manufacturing and selling directly to consumers, eliminating the cost of distribution and wholesalers, so they get a little more of the gross margin as profit than someone like Nikon or Canon, but they're not a volume manufacturer and are basically building "on demand" as orders come in. Their COGS is much higher on a per unit basis due to this factor. I doubt they are seeing a net margin of anything greater than 18% or so, that's what a lot of big, slick volume manufacturing outfits make.
So giving a 15% discount would be almost giving the product away. "Lose a nickel on every one, but make it up in the volume" doesn't actually work as a manufacturing business paradigm in general, but there's not a huge market for $2500-$3000 rangefinder camera bodies in particular. It's a niche product in a niche market ... Even if they could make a lot of them, there's not a huge audience out there that will buy one, so you're never going to make the "volume" to make it up in, regardless of how many people in RFF who bought one ballyhoo how wonderful a camera it is. It's just not going to happen that way.
Eh. There are probably enough NP-FW50 Li-Ion batteries (not Nickel-Metal-Hydride) in the world already manufactured to supply all Pixii owners with a half a dozen of them, and they'll last a decade with normal use. The supply of good quality film stock is probably more at risk than NP-FW50 batteries...! And that said, I hope we're not looking at yet another stupid Forever War.
Enough digression. I was curious how quickly my order would ship so I sent a query ... I just got a note from David at Pixii.fr. They have received my order as of this morning. Assembly start should begin next week, with completion likely within the week (calibration/qa testing nominated as about two days of that time). Add a few days for the usual production operations (packaging, etc) and the estimate of two weeks to ship time seems about right. It's kinda like buying a bespoke camera, that is, a camera that is individually made for you on your order. I like that, and was delighted to receive a personal response to my query so quickly. Can't say as I've had that kind of response from any other camera manufacturer in recent memory.
It'll be great when it arrives.
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Emile de Leon
Well-known
No one except Pixii knows what their margins are..
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Since we cannot know the details, I conjectured purely upon the statistics that are well known for the consumer electronics industry. But I'm not really interested in what Pixii's financials are. I'm just of the opinion that doing discounting for the miniscule market space that these cameras are a product for is likely just impossible to find any net advantage from. It's a fairly unique product that likely appeals to only a tiny fraction of the photographic community.
I do wonder just how many Pixii cameras have been sold. I am pretty sure that the answer "not very many" sums it up tidily. And I do hope that Pixii has enough of a revenue stream to keep going, because the Pixii is the kind of camera that I find very appealing, just like the Leica M-D 262 was. Most people on this forum didn't want an M-D 262 either, if I recall the threads about it from when I had mine.
I have plenty of film cameras. I continue to use them, as long as I can get film. I never stopped using film. I'm more interested in photographs than whether they're made with film or with a sensor.
G
A Stop for Coffee on my Walk
Santa Clara 2021
Polaroid SLR670m by MiNT
Polaroid SX-70 B&W
I do wonder just how many Pixii cameras have been sold. I am pretty sure that the answer "not very many" sums it up tidily. And I do hope that Pixii has enough of a revenue stream to keep going, because the Pixii is the kind of camera that I find very appealing, just like the Leica M-D 262 was. Most people on this forum didn't want an M-D 262 either, if I recall the threads about it from when I had mine.
I have plenty of film cameras. I continue to use them, as long as I can get film. I never stopped using film. I'm more interested in photographs than whether they're made with film or with a sensor.
G
A Stop for Coffee on my Walk
Santa Clara 2021
Polaroid SLR670m by MiNT
Polaroid SX-70 B&W
ranger9
Well-known
Moses came down from Mount Sinai with tablets from the Lord saying that 36x24mm was the One True Holy Full Frame Format. Not.
Actually, I coined the term "Moses format" in honor of Alfred Huger Moses Jr., a pioneering cinematographer and engineer, who introduced the Simplex, the first full-production, commercially-available still camera that made 36x24mm negatives on 35mm motion picture film. This was in the year 1914, when Oskar Barnack was still tinkering in his workshop between bouts of asthma. Around this same time, the Leica buffs like to claim, Oskar may (or may not) have prototyped an idea of the 36x24mm camera that eventually became the Ur-Leica and later the Leica Model I in 1924 -- but in the meantime it was Al who was putting his money where his mouth was and offering an actual line of products for sale.
So, I high-handedly decreed that the 36x24mm image format should be named in honor of Al Moses, and I invite everyone to join in my crusade to popularize this terminology and sweep from the linguistic battlefield those idiotic Internet photo pundits who have inflicted on us the meaningless catchphrase "full frame" (full of what?) for this particular image size, as if it were some kind of divinely ordained standard.
If you do scroll farther up the thread, you'll find my original post with a link to an article on the Head Bartender's site with a biography of Al and some information about his Manhattan-made, now extremely rare Simplex cameras.
ranger9
Well-known
There goes the neighborhood...
Seriously, did you go for black or "space gray," and how much memory did you get? Just curious...
Incidentally, since the beginning of the year I've been taking mine to work every day and have been shooting with it almost every day, sometimes for several hours at a time, and I must say the quirkiness has kind of worn off. Last week I had to do some shots with my Fujifilm X-T4 because I needed to use a longer lens, and I was constantly thinking, "Ew, what IS this thing?"
Godfrey
somewhat colored
There goes the neighborhood...
Seriously, did you go for black or "space gray," and how much memory did you get? Just curious...
Incidentally, since the beginning of the year I've been taking mine to work every day and have been shooting with it almost every day, sometimes for several hours at a time, and I must say the quirkiness has kind of worn off. Last week I had to do some shots with my Fujifilm X-T4 because I needed to use a longer lens, and I was constantly thinking, "Ew, what IS this thing?"
LOL!
I ordered black and 64G storage. It will be fun to learn another body and use my M-mount lenses on it—I've got a nice kit of lenses for M-mount and APS-C format now. It should all work quite nicely.
G
Emile de Leon
Well-known
I think Pixii should hire a musician/jingle writer..to create a theme song for them..like a commercial..
Something catchy...lol..
Like this..
Pixii...Pixii...you cant live without it..lalalalala...lalalalala...Pixii goes clicky clicky clicky ...Piiiixxxxiiiii...hahaha! Maybe in Bb minor..
Something catchy...lol..
Like this..
Pixii...Pixii...you cant live without it..lalalalala...lalalalala...Pixii goes clicky clicky clicky ...Piiiixxxxiiiii...hahaha! Maybe in Bb minor..
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Jingles were left behind as a useful marketing tool a while ago...
I love the Pixii process ... Just got a note from one of the staff there that work has commenced to build my Pixii. There's something special about having your camera built by hand for you, and being informed as it makes its way through the process.
And walking on this sunny day with the CL—and without a hat—reminded me of why I want the Pixii. It's a struggle on a sunny day to see the EVF image clearly if you don't have a good wide-brimmed hat to provide shade, where a rangefinder is much easier to see with. It reminds me yet again that there's advantage and disadvantage to every type of viewfinder. In retrospect, I shouldn't have sold the Leica M-D 262, but that's in the distant past now. I look forward to the Pixii challenges.
Fun fun fun...
G
I love the Pixii process ... Just got a note from one of the staff there that work has commenced to build my Pixii. There's something special about having your camera built by hand for you, and being informed as it makes its way through the process.
And walking on this sunny day with the CL—and without a hat—reminded me of why I want the Pixii. It's a struggle on a sunny day to see the EVF image clearly if you don't have a good wide-brimmed hat to provide shade, where a rangefinder is much easier to see with. It reminds me yet again that there's advantage and disadvantage to every type of viewfinder. In retrospect, I shouldn't have sold the Leica M-D 262, but that's in the distant past now. I look forward to the Pixii challenges.
Fun fun fun...
G
I am jealous guys! Keep this thread going!
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Will be good to hear your take on the new cam Godfrey!
backwardation
Newbie
New to this forum. Will introduce myself at some point! I’ve already ordered a Pixii. Thankfully this hasn’t made me regret it before it arrives:
https://youtu.be/hI9lspknmcM
https://youtu.be/hI9lspknmcM
Godfrey
somewhat colored
LOL! That's a fun "review preview"... Doesn't make me regret ordering either.
I have received another note from Pixii ... My camera is now assembled and into the calibration/testing/qa cycle for a couple of days. It's not stated but I kind of expect it to ship to me on Wednesday or so. The note said that there would be a final message coming up when the camera was shipped.
In the meantime, I've acquired a Sanyo Dual plugged, 512G thumb drive (USB-C and USB A type plugs) so I can easily move all my image files from the Pixii to external storage (I ordered a 64G camera, so the thumb drive will hold the contents of the camera 8x over). That's enough for any kind of travel or session shooting I'll ever do.
I've also acquired a pack of three Wasabi Power batteries and dual battery charger for the Pixii.
All set. I have all the lenses I want. Just waiting for my camera to arrive.
G
ranger9
Well-known
Thanks for pointing out that video. I was interested to see that his camera's serial number is in the 500s, while mine is in the 100s... assuming they number them consecutively, this suggests they're having at least a modest sales boom!
Watching that video also reminds me that I need to go back and update my own YouTube Pixii reviews (which are here and here, FYI.) Thanks to a combination of more practice with the camera and the timely arrival of a few software updates (the most recent of which dropped earlier this week) most of my initial reservations have been resolved or at least mitigated, and I really need to upgrade my metaphorical evaluation from "temperamental French girlfriend" to "quirky but amiable companion"...
Emile de Leon
Well-known
The more I see the more I like
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
In the past, Sony A7M II time, I used the B&H Watsons. They worked just fine. I gave them all away when I gave the A7M II away so it is back to B&H again. I use the B&H Watson Sony equivalent for the A7M III now. I will most likely order the Pixii this coming week. Mais non, porquoi pas?
Shortcomings are software problems and are being addressed. I understand more pictures can be taken more quickly now, for those who need it. As it seems purely a computer with a lens hung off it that seems rational and reasonable. It is the direction of technology. Are they awake in Leitz?
This camera is what the M series should have been, could have been but is not because the drudges in Leitz are focused on the M3, but electronic. To regard the depth and breadth of German technical ability and to see what they trot out now and again as "the new improved model" makes me stress my Norman English forbears and deny the German ones. ;o) I do not think that Herr Doktor Kaufmann has revealed himself to be much more than a kaufmann. Leica deserves better and so, too, do we. Pixii seems to be on the road to deliver it. They found the niche. Hello, Kaufmann, are you listening? Your ship may have sailed without you.
/rant off
I plan a Pixii as a replacement for my beloved M9, currently so happy with the '57 Jupiter 8.
As usual, YMMV.
ranger9
Well-known
Correct! The latest software version (5.2.4, released in March) improves responsiveness... it still doesn't let you shoot 20fps or anything like that, but it makes a big improvement in what I think of as shot-to-shot speed. When you take a picture and then need to follow up with another picture right away -- for example, when your portrait subject gives you a good expression but then gives you an even better one a moment later -- you can get it without bogging down the camera.
It used to be that taking three or four shots in quick succession would cause the BUSY indicator to appear on the display; you could still take pictures after that happened, but only at a slower pace. Now, I hardly ever see the BUSY indicator, at least with the way I tend to shoot (one, two or three shots in quick succession, then a pause while I wait for something else to happen, then another group of one, two or three shots.) If you shoot a burst of five or six photos, you can still light up the BUSY indicator, but I don't think that's the way most of us use a rangefinder camera (right?)
According to the documentation I've seen from Pixii SAS, the improvement was done two ways: (1) the low-resolution preview image that shows up via Bluetooth in the phone app has been reduced in size somewhat, saving processing time; (2) the image-processing pipeline has been tweaked in a way that slows down some individual functions but lets the overall process run more smoothly and quickly. All I know for sure is that I don't see the BUSY indicator nearly as often as I used to!
Blog post here: https://www.pixii.fr/blog/new-pixii-...e-update-npxkn
jos58
Member
After reading the enthousiastic posts I decided to boost sales for pixii by ordering one, 64gb, space grey! Looking forward to start the pixii adventure.
Thanks Ranger9 for sharing your hands on user experience and youtube contributions.
Thanks Ranger9 for sharing your hands on user experience and youtube contributions.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Yes, the French. As we get to know them they are more amiable. ;o) I am an admitted and unabashed Francophile. I lived there a few years and also in Quebec for a few years so I am happy in the culture. Just remember who invented the metric system. And Pixii invented AC way before Tesla. Our Anglo-Saxon world sometimes gives short shrift to the French. I think it is the English residual resentment at being invaded and conquered by French speaking people in 1066. Go team!
I think the folks at Pixii may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat. Chapeau!