Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I'll second this. I hated the original (screwmount) Ultron; maybe the new ones are optically better, but it's still a giant lens compared to the Color-Skopar, which is a stunning little lens in every way. And considering the Pixii supposedly has some issues with large lenses obstructing the rangefinder, maybe that's another reason to go for the smaller lens, too.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I will be running my Canon 28mm LTM f/2.8 which has been a sweet lens on an M8.2 and an M9. I suspect it will work well on a Pixii. I just took a bunch of pics with the CV 35mm f/1.4 N II. The colors are just a bit too bright it seems when outside. Inside it seems fine but that direct sunlight seems to make it crazy. Here is an example. I will try some more with the M9 just to see. I must in all fairness say I have begun to really like the color from my '57 J8. For skin tones it is on the money. The CV not so.
aizan
Veteran
What will happen first?
1. Pixii goes full frame.
2. Cosina makes 18mm and 23mm M-mount lenses for APS-C.
1. Pixii goes full frame.
2. Cosina makes 18mm and 23mm M-mount lenses for APS-C.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I don't know whether FF is ever in the offing for Pixii. I don't know why there is such an obsession with FF format, personally. (And stratospheric ISO settings. And bazillions of Mpixels. And f/0.5 lenses. Etc, etc...)
I personally would never, ever buy an M-mount lens that wasn't suitable to be used on a Leica M camera, film or digital. To me, that'd nothing but a waste of money.
G
"Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I am saying 1. Easier to upgrade the sensor and board than to design a lens and bring it to market.
Pixii does not have the lens burden. They are not saddled with lens construction but chose instead to do electronics/software. Barth, the honcho, is an old Linux head, Ubuntu I think, so you know he is software competent. He also has vision and drive. He has GoPro knowledge behind him and is now well-capitalized. These are all the pluses. Burling and some others have had good luck and are happy with theirs. I just hope like hell I am singing the same song after I get mine. I am 99% sure I will be.
aizan
Veteran
I don't care about FF per se, or M-mount lenses that only cover APS-C. I just want lenses with the right angle of view, aperture, and size.
Why did Pixii decide to go with APS-C when M-mount lenses are all FF? There must have been some interesting board room meetings where they sorted out what they could and couldn't do.
Why did Pixii decide to go with APS-C when M-mount lenses are all FF? There must have been some interesting board room meetings where they sorted out what they could and couldn't do.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
I dont think P is going to ever do FF.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
My SWAG is that the APS-C is a starting point. The sensor size has bumped up once already. Memory, too. The camera itself is no more than a container. Its contents are variable. There is talk that a FF would not run off an NP-FW50. My old Sony A7M II did fine and that was with a screen and auto everything lenses and in-camera stabilization in addition to in-lens stabilization. It can be done. Pixii is on a march. They did not set up a camp, they are marching. Remember the 13th Commandment. Thou Shalt Not Be Focked With. Pixii is serious. They are not a bunch of flakes staring at the stars. These guys are as serious as the proverbial heart attack.
I do not think the current camera is their final product. Non, non, non. Think in terms of a board game. They are moving square to square towards a greater goal.
backwardation
Newbie
I did jump on it. Comes with the M adaptor so at least that's not an additional cost. I have at least two people to blame if I don't like it!
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
If you don't like it I'll eat my hat. It's such a good lens I've had to stop myself from buying the Contax version multiple times over the last year. Not sure I can justify the exact same lens in two mounts.
It's bloody tempting, though.
aizan
Veteran
I forgot option 3, the most likely one TBH:
3. Deign to use an accessory viewfinder for 28mm-e (21mm) and settle for 40mm-e (28mm).
3. Deign to use an accessory viewfinder for 28mm-e (21mm) and settle for 40mm-e (28mm).
presspass
filmshooter
For those of you who have been using a Pixii, are you satisfied with your decision or should you have put the same money toward a used digital Leica? I am looking for something to replace or supplement an M8 bought new and now very long in the tooth. I do not want to download to a smartphone, just move the photos to a desktop Mac and use them in our weekly newspaper. Any information appreciated.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Lenses with the right angle of view, aperture, and size are easily available. You might not want to pay for them, if you insist upon ultra fast lenses, but they're available.
Did it occur to you that the reason to build a camera with an M-mount is that there are tons and tons of M-mount lenses available (and in people's hands), the mount is a simple mechanical mount that requires no programming with no lens control protocol, and the basic M-mount design is no longer protected under patent?
Why did they go with an APS-C sensor? To reduce cost, and maybe to get better performance from an all-electronic-shutter based camera. The imaging sensor is the MOST expensive part of the camera, and a FF sensor of appropriate spec might well then have made a Pixii cost as much as an Leica M. With all the moaning about price, do you think anyone would buy a Pixii, a new hand-built camera from a start up company, that costs as much as a Leica M11?
G
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
RTFM. You can DL to a thumbdrive or onto your computer. You can copy the files as from a perceived HD to your computer or do a USB backup which will cut them from the camera. I do not know for sure but it may be possible to thwart the DL to the phone. It is instantaneous. If you cannot thwart it you can ignore it.
And when mine shows up I will know more! Hah! I, too, have an M8(.2) and am looking forward to this impertinent French upstart. The lenses work nearly the same, APS-C vs APS-H, 1.5 vs 1.3 crop ratio. If you have reviewed the Mattias Burling video on YT you have seen how well the Pixii captures images. I am biased as all get-out but think that these mecs will change the industry. They may not conquer it as a company but they will change how things are done. The approach will be that of a computer with a lens on it. A glorified cellphone. Chuck away the mechanicals. We threw away points in cars for electronics decades ago. More and more mechanical methods are replaced by electronic ones.
aizan
Veteran
Anybody know a good 28mm Ultron equivalent? The closest things are the 18mm f/4 Distagon ZM (big, slow), 17mm f/2.8 Atoll (big, no focusing tab), and 21mm f/1.8 Ultron (big, no focusing tab).
The Ultron is fast, small, and has a focusing tab. That’s why I want an APS-C 18mm lens in M-mount.
The Ultron is fast, small, and has a focusing tab. That’s why I want an APS-C 18mm lens in M-mount.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
You mean the pixel resolution, not the sensor size. There's a difference.
I'm not really into the Marching Military allusion either. They seem like a nice bunch of engineers looking to produce a good camera at a sensible price. They've already been working on the Pixii for five or six years, and have acquired a good following of investors, etc. The current product looks good (I'll know more any time now). Presuming they can keep it up, more goodness should come.
The notion that a new, from scratch, camera company can successfully be started and endure is novel in the current photographic marketplace. I hope it is still possible.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'll let you know in a month or two when I've made my first thousand or two photographs with mine.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The closest thing I can think of to an Ultron 28/2 for APS-C would be a Summilux-M 21mm f/1.4 ASPH. Other than that it's big and weighs a lot more. One and a half stops slower, but a much better performer than the Ultron ... and smaller ... is a Color Skopar 21/3.5. That's what I bought, and it is wonderful. I've been testing it on the Leica CL and the results are superb.
There's not much in the 18mm range available, and most are not as fast as the 21/3.5. If you can go as long as a 24mm, the MS Optics Aporia 24mm f/2 is teensy, very sharp, and about $1200. I have that one too.
The Leica Wide-Angle-Tri-Elmar (WATE) gives you 16-18-21 mm in one lens, @ f/4, and all excellent quality. It's a bit bulkier than the Ultron 28 but a wonderful lens at all focal lengths and apertures. I had one, loved it; but I found I wanted wider than 16mm and sold it after I went for the Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6. Very very happy with that...
G
There's not much in the 18mm range available, and most are not as fast as the 21/3.5. If you can go as long as a 24mm, the MS Optics Aporia 24mm f/2 is teensy, very sharp, and about $1200. I have that one too.
The Leica Wide-Angle-Tri-Elmar (WATE) gives you 16-18-21 mm in one lens, @ f/4, and all excellent quality. It's a bit bulkier than the Ultron 28 but a wonderful lens at all focal lengths and apertures. I had one, loved it; but I found I wanted wider than 16mm and sold it after I went for the Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6. Very very happy with that...
G
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I can tell you I have had very good luck with the Canon 28mm LTM f/2.8. Sharp but not so sharp as to hurt your eyes or make engravings and color, color, color plus very good B&W. These are from an M8.2.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
You mean the pixel resolution, not the sensor size. There's a difference.
I'm not really into the Marching Military allusion either. They seem like a nice bunch of engineers looking to produce a good camera at a sensible price. They've already been working on the Pixii for five or six years, and have acquired a good following of investors, etc. The current product looks good (I'll know more any time now). Presuming they can keep it up, more goodness should come.
The notion that a new, from scratch, camera company can successfully be started and endure is novel in the current photographic marketplace. I hope it is still possible.
G
G, these fellows stared with a BS session in some cafe and have created a whole new camera company and did it by changing the camera concept entirely. That shell is just a container they dump whatever they need into. The old analogy of starting with a clean sheet of paper fits here. And as sharp and bold as they are I do not think they will be content with what they now have. They are being guided by a GoPro guru. Look at what that little squirt company with no market did in just a few years. You've been to Alice's Restaurant on Sundays when the biker crowd is there. I bet you see a lot of GoPros for the folks who want to "Do the Ton" down Skyline and hope like hell they do not get killed. It used to be they taped video cameras on their tanks to record the road and the speedo. No more. Lots of folks bought GoPros who had never heard of them the year before. Barbier, the GoPro guy at Pixii, knows how to grow market share, QED.
So, my pinheaded view is that his box will be used for further iterations of new tools within the camera, like FF. The battery is not a problem. The size of the box is not a problem. Heat?? Others have solved that and they were still thinking less modernly than these guys. They can do a lot and like GoPro, pretty much keep the same box, form factor.
It's gonna be fun watching these guys. At my age I will really have to start eating healthier. ;o) Ossa bucco is health food, right?
Isabelle has not given me an update on mine. We can compare notes when we are Pixiistes. I just picked up a couple of vintage 35's on eBay: Jupiter 12 and Canon LTM f/2.0, the black one. A fellow on the board showed me what the Canon can do on a Pixii, nice. The J12, we'll see.