New Pixii 26MP

[Godfrey]

I'm going agree to disagree here Godfrey. I want to like this camera, but for me in my current situation (yes, I chose it and it is ok), I cannot take the chance. I am sorry if my fears seem irrational to you. Maybe they are, but they are there nonetheless.

I understand basic statistics and agree that 2 or 3 out of 500 is nothing, but I have no idea how many of the 500 people are happy. None of us do. I do know what is in this thread. It is enough for ME to relax on this camera and consider a used Leica instead based on MY current situation. I see no issue in that. I still think it is a cool camera and I concede that blaming UPS problems on Pixii went too far. It just seemed strange that 2 out of the 3 had shipping issues.

Fine by me.

(bolded) My brother has worked for UPS for decades. And even he tells me that their international tracking and management from certain countries into the USA is all screwed up. Statistically, the he says the percentage of problem shipments is down in the 3-4% range, which their management seems to deem as acceptable, but in my former business that would be considered way, way beyond acceptable because our company lost several million dollars with every percentage point of failures in warranty and re-do cost, never mind losses in customer satisfaction.

G

 

[Godfrey]

The problem with opinions and feedback is not all opinions are created equal. I'm not a statistician by any means, but I learned that very quickly doing product development in my own niche.

The RFF crowd is, largely, a very discerning audience; it's a forum full of (predominately) older people who've spent a lot of time using some of the most celebrated cameras that have ever been made; Leicas, Hasselblads, Nikons both S and F, and so on.

On the flip side, another community will have different expectations. Let's pick on Lomography here, for example - if you put the most flawed and inherently defective camera into that community, they'll actively celebrate its flaws. The weird colour balance issues and erratic exposures I've seen reported on here about the Pixii would go down fantastically on that website.

A more "balanced" community - let's take Flickr here - will probably give a fairer assessment, but without knowing the background of the user, it's tough to know whether your experiences will match theirs. I've never used a Pixxi myself, but I think it's fair to see that as a prototypical RFF user, I'm far more likely to agree with the three negative experiences on here than I am the responses of the average Flickr user.

Applying statistical analysis to reviews is ultimately a fool's errand without that background information, no matter how you want to spin it.

Considering online reviews as actual fact, in general, is just as much a fool's errand. I almost never read reviews looking for information about a new product since they're mostly useless for that. What they are useful for is, firstly, entertainment (you get to know a particular reviewer and enjoy his/her perspectives) and, secondly, as a useful quick way to find a synopsis of the manufacturers' information about the product in an easy to access place. That's about it as far as I'm concerned.

The best way to find out about a new product is to get one into your hands, read the manufacturers' information, and test it. There is much that I liked about the Pixii and thought it a pretty fine performer in some ways, which is often ignored when I write about it. I returned it because certain aspects of what I didn't like placed enough obstruction into my using it that I didn't feel it worth effort for me. Others with different priorities of use would likely never bat an eye about it.

I consider RFF a great place for mostly hobbyists to converse, a simulacrum of what used to be the local camera club. There's no sensible way to vet the credibility of that conversation overall since you only see what those who care to post a lot have to say, you only see the conversations that pique your interest and choose to read, and information presented through a loudspeaker is worth no more than the same information presented in whispers.

G

 

[Godfrey]

When I purchased my Leica M8 and M9, I assumed that I was buying handcrafted, low-production products not as thoroughly tested as your typical Canon consumer product, and that there might be glitches. And there certainly were! But I purchased these first-generation products anyway, because who knew if there would ever be more-polished successors? And although I've since moved onto other things, I have no regrets.

IMO, the way to be a happy digital RF shooter is to be grateful that such idiosyncratic products even exist, and not to sweat the small-to-middling stuff. And if that's not possible, then better stick with products from companies with much greater resources, like Canon, Sony, Nikon, Fujifilm and Ricoh. For the moment, Pixii is the lower-cost alternative to Leica, there may not be a followup model, and perhaps there will be no other digital rangefinder cameras produced within our lifetimes.

Regards your assumptions in the first sentence, I never gave it a second thought. I'd been using Leica cameras for 40 years or so, alongside Nikon and other cameras, when I bought my M9. The Leica cameras always worked fine, and, when they didn't, Leica took care of the problems for me the same way Nikon, Olympus, et al, did. The same was true of the M9. Just five years before, it was generally common knowledge that a digital version of the Leica M was near to impossible ... I was happy to have a digital M at all despite its foibles.

Happily the technology has come along quite a ways and the current generation digital Ms work even better. I am thankful that someone makes what I like to use, yes; but regardless of that, it's of no use to me if the flaws put obstacles into the way of my using them successfully. My M9 died of the sensor "corrosion" issue ... Leica took care of me by giving me a reasonable trade in value and I obtained the M-P240. My subsequent SL, then M-D262, and now M10-M have all been flawless, and my buying/selling of same has much more to do with what I need/want at a given time than what idiosyncracies they've had. The same is true for nearly every other camera that I have bought and kept, put to use, over all the years from 1968 to the present.

None of these things are ever "perfect" ... They just have to work to suit my needs and not get in the way of my doing what is important to me.

G

 

[jsrockit]

For the moment, Pixii is the lower-cost alternative to Leica, there may not be a followup model, and perhaps there will be no other digital rangefinder cameras produced within our lifetimes.

It is true. The firmware problem the one user is having is concerning, but that sounds like Pixii can help him fix that remotely if I understood. My major concern is having to pay huge taxes and fees to have it shipped to Chile and then having send it back to France for repairs. It is just too expensive and problematic for me personally with that considered. Therefore, the lower priced alternative is the M240 or M262. I actually prefer a mechanical shutter too. If I lived in the USA still, I would seriously consider the Pixii still. It certainly is cool.

 

[agentlossing]

I certainly hope the Pixii continues progressing, and maybe another iteration of the hardware comes out as well. The APS-C sensor is enough in itself to dissuade me from buying in, but I want digital rangefinders to expand beyond Leica into a viable sub-market. I just don't want to have M-mount lenses all turned into standard-to-telephoto lenses on account of the crop factor, I don't shoot much towards the tele end of things.

 

[Harry the K]

Adding a second computer (smartphone) to your imaging computer (camera) just to get full functionality seems like a stupid idea to me. But that is a mighty trend of our time: Use your smartphone no matter what you´re doing basically.

 

[boojum]

I'm going agree to disagree here Godfrey. I want to like this camera, but for me in my current situation (yes, I chose it and it is ok), I cannot take the chance. I am sorry if my fears seem irrational to you. Maybe they are, but they are there nonetheless.

I understand basic statistics and agree that 2 or 3 out of 500 is nothing, but I have no idea how many of the 500 people are happy. None of us do. I do know what is in this thread. It is enough for ME to relax on this camera and consider a used Leica instead based on MY current situation. I see no issue in that. I still think it is a cool camera and I concede that blaming UPS problems on Pixii went too far. It just seemed strange that 2 out of the 3 had shipping issues.

I agree about UPS. However, UPS stated that I refused delivery which was a flat-out lie. It was a signature delivery and while I was at home never more than 15 feet from the door no one ever knocked on the door. I was really "upset." Granted the Covid-19 pandemic had upended much of what we normally enjoyed but to post a blatant lie as an excuse for not delivering and returning to sender was really "upsetting." And Pixii SAS bent over backwards to make it whole again and send it FedEx the second time. FWIW I have had problems shipping with both of these companies.

The only folks I know who deliver and deliver on time are the folks at Amazon.

 

[jsrockit]

Adding a second computer (smartphone) to your imaging computer (camera) just to get full functionality seems like a stupid idea to me..

Isn't it just for image review and initial set-up? If you are a menu diver or constantly review your images, then sure, it will not work for you. However, as a way to make it feel like a classic rangefinder, I see why they went this route.

 

[Harry the K]

big advantages

Isn't it just for image review and initial set-up? If you are a menu diver or constantly review your images, then sure, it will not work for you. However, as a way to make it feel like a classic rangefinder, I see why they went this route.

If you want to mimick a classic rf, like a film Leica M or Nikon S, you can always turn the display of your digital Leica M off. Reviewing is a "can", not a "must".
One of the big advantages of digital imaging is instant picture control, and I can see no reason why to dispense with it. And a digital camera has many more setup choices than a film camera, quick changes are sometimes welcome.
Omitting the display will never turn this camera into a classic rf, it will always be a substitute for the real thing, which is, of course, a film rf. I shoot both film and digital, but have no desire to mix them up.

 

[jsrockit]

If you want to mimick a classic rf, like a film Leica M or Nikon S, you can always turn the display of your digital Leica M off. Reviewing is a "can", not a "must".
One of the big advantages of digital imaging is instant picture control, and I can see no reason why to dispense with it. And a digital camera has many more setup choices than a film camera, quick changes are sometimes welcome.
Omitting the display will never turn this camera into a classic rf, it will always be a substitute for the real thing, which is, of course, a film rf. I shoot both film and digital, but have no desire to mix them up.

You literally have almost every other digital camera to choose from if you want a screen and want to make quick changes all of the time. A digital camera does not have to be any more complex than a film camera in basic use. I appreciate what they made and designed in this world full of cameras that look and act the same. It is pretty obvious to me they were not looking to make a mainstream camera.

 

[ptpdprinter]

It is pretty obvious to me they were not looking to make a mainstream camera.

Right. It is a rangefinder camera accepting M-mount lenses with an APS-C sensor, no rear screen, and on-board memory. You probably couldn't make it any more niche. That probably explains why they have only sold 500 cameras.

 

[Harry the K]

You literally have almost every other digital camera to choose from if you want a screen and want to make quick changes all of the time. A digital camera does not have to be any more complex than a film camera in basic use. I appreciate what they made and designed in this world full of cameras that look and act the same. It is pretty obvious to me they were not looking to make a mainstream camera.

On this we can agree: no mainstream camera. And to each his own.
I just cannot appreciate the concept. But: Have fun with it!

 

[jsrockit]

On this we can agree: no mainstream camera. And to each his own.
I just cannot appreciate the concept. But: Have fun with it!

Well, I did not put my money where my mouth is. I am going for a used M240 instead. 😉

 

[jsrockit]

Right. It is a rangefinder camera accepting M-mount lenses with an APS-C sensor, no rear screen, and on-board memory. You probably couldn't make it any more niche. That probably explains why they have only sold 500 cameras.

Maybe 500 is not so bad in a small period of time selling only from your website.

 

[Godfrey]

If you want to mimick a classic rf, like a film Leica M or Nikon S, you can always turn the display of your digital Leica M off. Reviewing is a "can", not a "must".
One of the big advantages of digital imaging is instant picture control, and I can see no reason why to dispense with it. And a digital camera has many more setup choices than a film camera, quick changes are sometimes welcome.
Omitting the display will never turn this camera into a classic rf, it will always be a substitute for the real thing, which is, of course, a film rf. I shoot both film and digital, but have no desire to mix them up.

I had the Leica M-D 262. IMO, it was the perfect digital camera: NO settings at all other than ISO, aperture, exposure duration, focus. None. No display, no on-camera review. Pre-visualize, make raw exposures in the field, process and render afterwards. Photography as it was in the film era with all the advantage of a modern digital sensor. I should have kept it.

I really like my new M10 Monochrom, for its even better sensor, resolution, responsiveness, and the creative limitations that a monochrome-only sensor provides. It's additional features extend the camera's capabilities in more ways than the M-D could be used. So it suits my use and desires now better than the M-D. But I should have kept the M-D anyway. Sigh.

Personally, I found the Pixii app (iPhone version) was a bit of a work in progress itself, independent of the camera, and completely unnecessary in terms of the use of the camera. Using the camera the same way I used the M-D was completely fine. The Problem with the Pixii that made it unsuited for my use had nothing to do with the app; it had to do with the visibility of the on-camera settings display, the inconsistency in feel and operation of the on-camera controls (shutter release, settings dials), and the poor battery management issue. The fact that the app didn't work particularly well or reliably as inconsequential because I was never dependent upon it for anything.

G

 

[spb_ch]

My Pixii arrives next week, looking forward to trying it out and hoping not to have some of the issues I have read about here.

 

[jsrockit]

My Pixii arrives next week, looking forward to trying it out and hoping not to have some of the issues I have read about here.

Good luck and especially let us know if you
love it. We need a success story here. 🙂

 

[Godfrey]

My Pixii arrives next week, looking forward to trying it out and hoping not to have some of the issues I have read about here.

Good luck with it!

They've done at least one or two firmware updates since I returned mine. I suspect a few of the issues I had have seen some development effort and progress.

G

 

[spb_ch]

Good luck with it!

They've done at least one or two firmware updates since I returned mine. I suspect a few of the issues I had have seen some development effort and progress.

G

Thanks. I am hoping in the next update, if not already on my camera AUTO-ISO. I appreciate that quite a bit on the M11.

 

[u_2947]

I’ve ordered a Pixii and am eagerly looking forward to it. I enjoy using both restricted/limited/minimalist products, and products that aren’t fully polished. I like to support startups, and I find “limitations” charming and inspiring most of the time. Part of that is because I get tired of navigating a thousand features and configuration settings, which tends to happen with some more-polished, more-fully-developed cameras (few cameras get simpler over time…) I’m not aiming this at any particular camera, this isn’t a snide remark, it’s just a note of appreciation for the minimalist nature of early-adopter products. I have a bunch of cameras and many of them are extremely capable, but I also like to use cameras that have nothing I don’t need.

But I also just really, really love appreciating the effort and skill that has gone into products, appreciating the people behind the products. Yesterday I developed a roll of film that I just ran through a thrift-store copy of a Ricoh 35 S from 1965. After presumably sitting unused for many decades, it not only worked flawlessly, but the meter is still working and still accurate too! It has a lot of “interesting design choices” but that’s part of the appeal to me. The people who built it were figuring it out and being creative, not following a known recipe, and I always get a sense that they gave it everything they had to give. That sense of connection to their dedication across time and space brings me great joy. Pixii wrote me about the status of my future camera and I was very happy to read it.

I founded a business once. A few years afterwards, I was talking to the CEO of a company I’d formerly worked for that pivoted after I left, to compete with my startup, and he said my business was inefficient because I was innovating. He said he got a lot of satisfaction out of watching me spend huge amounts of time and money figuring things out, so he could be a “fast follower” and copy the best of what I learned without all the expense. He wasn’t wrong. Everyone innovative startup at some point realizes their fast-follower competition has a huge advantage on them. But some people long for the fresh snow, and some for the packed trails. To each their own. I’ve got a few thousand dollars to spare as a result of success with that company, and I’m spending it on Pixii. I want them to be able to continue creating instead of going back to other jobs where they might just spend their time repeating something that’s already been done.

I’ve appreciated reading through other peoples’ experiences with their Pixii cameras. Thanks to everyone who took time to share here. It gave me a sense that this is something doable for me: not perfect, not finished, but enjoyable. I’m sure I’ll find workarounds for white-balance foibles and so on. Hopefully there won’t be showstoppers.