back alley
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dostacos said:of or from
yes!!
joe
einolu
Well-known
of, sorry, just want to see how large the viewfinder is in the back and how the black paint finish looks.
dostacos
Dan
einolu said:of, sorry, just want to see how large the viewfinder is in the back and how the black paint finish looks.
I will see what I can do tomorrow with my digital camera
Back Alley ah... I will get back to ya on that
jan normandale
Film is the other way
einolu said:
Classic.... Einars! ;- )
Carzee
unpimp deine auto-kamera!
Stephen emailed me a tracker -my R4A is now in the air somewhere.
Have i got this right -the R4A is a matte black speckled /drips n drops type finish and the R4M is a gloss black paint?
ALSO
that Cosina link has a price on the R4 set at 98000 Yen which is over US820....
Have i got this right -the R4A is a matte black speckled /drips n drops type finish and the R4M is a gloss black paint?
ALSO
that Cosina link has a price on the R4 set at 98000 Yen which is over US820....
peter_n
Veteran
Yes, the A is a matte black and the M is regular CV black.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I have probably shot about 40-45 rolls with my R4M already. Just like the Amex card -Dont leave home without it!
At the moment I am cycling through various lenses on it, 21f4P. 25/4 Snap-Shot, 25/2,8 ZI, the 28/3,5 VC. Elmarit 28/2,8 and VC 28/1,9.
So far only the hood of the Elmarit 28 blocks a bit too much to be comfortabler. The 25/2,8 ZI does show in the finder and you have to compensate for it. The 35/1.2 with the vented hood blocks enough that you can hide small cars there! With the "straight" hood it is much more useful. The combination of a 0.5 magnification and the 35/1,2 or 50/1,4 maximum aperture does require that you focus carefully.
I am still thrilled with this camera and i personally think it is one of the great rangefinder cameras of all time! No more top-mounted finder to knock off or bang up (trust me on this - I have a miserable record of busted and broken 21/28 finders). If you use wide-amgles a lot, this is a must! Paired with a R3M/M2 or Zi for 35/50/75 it works out as a very compact travel kit or just as a "walk about" package,
The meter on the R4M, just as on the R3M is as precise as you will ever need and the EV readout works well.
The 21f4 P is the same as the LTM mount 21/4 and the only added benefit is the "ears" on the aperture ring and a slightly larger diameter of the hood, which means that you can put the hood on even with a 39mm filter in place.
At the moment I am cycling through various lenses on it, 21f4P. 25/4 Snap-Shot, 25/2,8 ZI, the 28/3,5 VC. Elmarit 28/2,8 and VC 28/1,9.
So far only the hood of the Elmarit 28 blocks a bit too much to be comfortabler. The 25/2,8 ZI does show in the finder and you have to compensate for it. The 35/1.2 with the vented hood blocks enough that you can hide small cars there! With the "straight" hood it is much more useful. The combination of a 0.5 magnification and the 35/1,2 or 50/1,4 maximum aperture does require that you focus carefully.
I am still thrilled with this camera and i personally think it is one of the great rangefinder cameras of all time! No more top-mounted finder to knock off or bang up (trust me on this - I have a miserable record of busted and broken 21/28 finders). If you use wide-amgles a lot, this is a must! Paired with a R3M/M2 or Zi for 35/50/75 it works out as a very compact travel kit or just as a "walk about" package,
The meter on the R4M, just as on the R3M is as precise as you will ever need and the EV readout works well.
The 21f4 P is the same as the LTM mount 21/4 and the only added benefit is the "ears" on the aperture ring and a slightly larger diameter of the hood, which means that you can put the hood on even with a 39mm filter in place.
biomed
Veteran
R4m
R4m
There is a tiny bit of barrel distortion in the finder, hardly noticeable. The VF also has a green antiglare coating. The build quality is the same as the R3. The paint on the R4M is more of a semigloss rather than high gloss. I would say the the 21 frame is slightly easier to see than the 40 on the R3A with glasses.
Mike
R4m
There is a tiny bit of barrel distortion in the finder, hardly noticeable. The VF also has a green antiglare coating. The build quality is the same as the R3. The paint on the R4M is more of a semigloss rather than high gloss. I would say the the 21 frame is slightly easier to see than the 40 on the R3A with glasses.
Mike
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Ah! can't wait until I can read the in-depth review complete with sample pictures.
Say, is it just me or the new R4 looks kinda like a Zorki 4 ???
Say, is it just me or the new R4 looks kinda like a Zorki 4 ???
enochRoot
a chymist of some repute
the R4A is matte, but it is not speckled at all. it is a smooth matte finish (like the grey R2/3A), and i really like it.
i do find the viewfinder a bit dimmer than others (including the R2/3A), but i would assume that has something to do with accomodating the lower magnification and making it all work. nothing bad (not super dim or anything), just not as bright as others. my CL, for instance is a lot brighter/crisper.
i was able to shoot with mine over the past 3 days in the smoky mountains, and i LOVE not having to focus and compose in different viewfinders (or if shooting hyperfocal...having to worry about knocking off the accessory viewfinder). it was much quicker to grab my camera from my pack, and be ready to snap (as opposed to putting a viewfinder in the hot-shoe really quick, or carrying the camera in my hand on some dicey trails).
the viewfinder blockage of my 21mm elmarit (pre-asph) did not bug me at first, but it has become a bit of an annoyance over time. granted, it is a 60mm filter thread...so the new c-biogon (for example) would be no problem whatsoever. i just find that "swiping" down to see what the lens is blocking in the frame is harder than w/ the noctilux on a standard M body. i assume it has to do w/ just how much area is actually covered by the lens at this magnification. in essence...it took a much larger swipe down to see what is being hidden.
as always, there are pros and cons with using this as opposed to using a camera w/ a hot-shoe mounted viewfinder. but this is most definitely an AMAZING product, and will definitely leave its mark on all of rangefinderdom! only time will tell if this will become my dedicated wide angle body, or if i'll stick w/ the pain of a separate viewfinder.
that's my honest opinion for whoever is interested
i do find the viewfinder a bit dimmer than others (including the R2/3A), but i would assume that has something to do with accomodating the lower magnification and making it all work. nothing bad (not super dim or anything), just not as bright as others. my CL, for instance is a lot brighter/crisper.
i was able to shoot with mine over the past 3 days in the smoky mountains, and i LOVE not having to focus and compose in different viewfinders (or if shooting hyperfocal...having to worry about knocking off the accessory viewfinder). it was much quicker to grab my camera from my pack, and be ready to snap (as opposed to putting a viewfinder in the hot-shoe really quick, or carrying the camera in my hand on some dicey trails).
the viewfinder blockage of my 21mm elmarit (pre-asph) did not bug me at first, but it has become a bit of an annoyance over time. granted, it is a 60mm filter thread...so the new c-biogon (for example) would be no problem whatsoever. i just find that "swiping" down to see what the lens is blocking in the frame is harder than w/ the noctilux on a standard M body. i assume it has to do w/ just how much area is actually covered by the lens at this magnification. in essence...it took a much larger swipe down to see what is being hidden.
as always, there are pros and cons with using this as opposed to using a camera w/ a hot-shoe mounted viewfinder. but this is most definitely an AMAZING product, and will definitely leave its mark on all of rangefinderdom! only time will tell if this will become my dedicated wide angle body, or if i'll stick w/ the pain of a separate viewfinder.
that's my honest opinion for whoever is interested
Carzee said:
Terao
Kiloran
Just one question from me, how is the eyepoint? Is the 21mm frame visible to an average glasses-wearer? In my case I can just about see all four corners of the 35mm frame on an R2S, but find the 28mm frame on my R-D1 a struggle...
enochRoot
a chymist of some repute
i can just barely see the 21mm framelines when wearing sunglasses (which are way bulkier than regular eyeglasses), so i would think you should be able to see the framelines fine.
fotorr
Established
When using th CV21mm lens on the R4A, I find that I can't see to whole 21mm frame in the VF. Now I wear glasses and use my left eye to use the VF. My left glass lens is rather thick and this is certainly the problem.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The whole point with the R4 finder was you should be able to see the 21 frames with glasses! When the discussion about this finder started about 4 years ago, this was one of the criteria that i insisted on. Lucky for me, Mr Kobayashi also wears glasses and agreed. The designer of the finder (he also did the CLE/Hexar/ X-Pan finder) was not faced with this at all. Two years ago I saw the "prototype" finder and at Photokina 2006 i saw the pre-production sample of the camera. The end result is actually better than i anticipated!
If you wear regular glasses, you can see the 21 frames clearly. It is a tight fit and the analogy of the 40 frames on the R3 is fitting. Frames for the 25 and 28 are clearly visible, the 28 frame as a single frame in the finder is very clear.
These discussions at Cosina or at Photokina are highly informal. CV and Mr Kobayashi use me as a sounding board and occasionally I can put forward ideas that are picked up. The discussions are very much like when a group of photographers get together and create 'wish"lists. The only difference here is that Mr Kobayashi has the ability to bring these projects to reality! He has a really great group of people working for him. They are interested in what the customer wants and will try to accomodate this within the realms of technology and realistic pricing.
If you wear regular glasses, you can see the 21 frames clearly. It is a tight fit and the analogy of the 40 frames on the R3 is fitting. Frames for the 25 and 28 are clearly visible, the 28 frame as a single frame in the finder is very clear.
These discussions at Cosina or at Photokina are highly informal. CV and Mr Kobayashi use me as a sounding board and occasionally I can put forward ideas that are picked up. The discussions are very much like when a group of photographers get together and create 'wish"lists. The only difference here is that Mr Kobayashi has the ability to bring these projects to reality! He has a really great group of people working for him. They are interested in what the customer wants and will try to accomodate this within the realms of technology and realistic pricing.
Athena
Well-known
Kobayashi-san is very shrewd.
He makes a new, improved M-film body. And has no magenta complaints.
Only more praise for his new R4.
So, as a Nikonian, I curse Kobayashi for he tempts me now to the dark, "L" side.
Yet, I bless K-san for he gave renewed life to my Nikkors with the R2S!
What a wise man! With some "alteration" he could be a Greek godess of wisdom! :angel:
He makes a new, improved M-film body. And has no magenta complaints.
Only more praise for his new R4.
So, as a Nikonian, I curse Kobayashi for he tempts me now to the dark, "L" side.
Yet, I bless K-san for he gave renewed life to my Nikkors with the R2S!
What a wise man! With some "alteration" he could be a Greek godess of wisdom! :angel:
Individual users will have different mileage Tom. My R4a arrived today, with my glasses on the 21mm framelines are just visible, your comparison to the 40s on the R3 is pretty to the point.
I do not wear heavy prescription glasses, and I would say the 21mm framelines are not perfect, but perfectly usable. I expect them to be fine for me. Keep in mind when considering this that the framelines do not show you 100% of the image to be captured on the film, and that with the reduced magnification you can see quite a bit, I expect to adjust very easily to this finder with use of my 21.
casualuser
Member
R4a/m
R4a/m
Anyone have a feel for how easy/difficult it is to use the VC 40 1.4 on the R4A or M? Can you interpolate between the 35 and 50 framelines and be reasonably accurate?
R4a/m
Anyone have a feel for how easy/difficult it is to use the VC 40 1.4 on the R4A or M? Can you interpolate between the 35 and 50 framelines and be reasonably accurate?
I would think the 35mm framelines will be pretty usable with the 40. I don't know about focusing and the short EBL finder at 1.4, but I have not detected any problems with my 35/1.7.
dostacos
Dan
It may depend on the type of glasses you wear. I have very large lenses [Rx Ray Ban Aviators ] they sit close to the face but have a large curve so I lose one side or the other, top bottom no problems
Terao
Kiloran
Thanks all.
To answer the 40mm question on the other Bessa bodies I tend to use the 35mm frames, pretty good approximation if you use the outside of the brackets. But hey, WYSIWYG is for SLRs (and even then nowadays not really!)
Hmm, eyepoint reports are not good...
...for the bank balance that is!
Time to pay Mr White a visit.
Nokton 35mm f/1,2 owners: I'd also be interested in how easy you find it to get accurate real-world focus. Not particularly interested in close up, just your normal snap focusing at 2 to 3 metres wide open...
To answer the 40mm question on the other Bessa bodies I tend to use the 35mm frames, pretty good approximation if you use the outside of the brackets. But hey, WYSIWYG is for SLRs (and even then nowadays not really!)
Hmm, eyepoint reports are not good...
...for the bank balance that is!
Time to pay Mr White a visit.
Nokton 35mm f/1,2 owners: I'd also be interested in how easy you find it to get accurate real-world focus. Not particularly interested in close up, just your normal snap focusing at 2 to 3 metres wide open...