Semushkin
Established
back alley
IMAGES
mn4367
Established
Absolutely correct. But there is a difference between expensive and overprized. My problem is that I (and assume we all) don't know if R&D, production costs and other factors force Epson to demand that price to make a substantial profit. If costs were that high, the price seems justified. If not, well, I think we're at least allowed to criticize.
Apart fom that I think the money spent in dropping the swivel LCD had been better spent in changing the sensor to something with more MP (regardless of how good the current sensor is for many of us, including me). But thats only my opinon. Maybe the customer survey Epson did revealed that for the japanese target market it is more important to have a bigger screen instead of having more resolution. Who knows...
mn4367
Established
Epson Photolier isn't new. I'm not sure about this, but I think this was the name of the software in Japan (link). The little screenshot I saw on the Epson R-D1x also looks like Camera Raw. I wouldn't expect any substantal improvements here.
Wiyum
Established
Right on. Regardless of Epson's costs, and especially the physical production costs, they've somewhat sealed their fate with such a small production run. If they made more of these, the per-unit cost would be lower, and I think the camera would be significantly more attractive to a larger group of people. Right now, demand for the R-D1x is certainly being curtailed by the price tag. Pricing and production is always difficult, and always a moving target, but if they genuinely wanted this camera to succeed, I think they could move many more of them at a lower cost.
I get the impression that they're tucking away a tidy profit on each of these, and it is a quick money-grab. It seems improbable that a company would launch a dRF to make some quick money, but with such a small run at such a high price, we've already seen that they'll do well enough with it. One just gets the impression that no decisions were made with the intent of delivering a newer, better product to consumers, and I can't imagine that a more-modern chip or improvements in other areas would be that hard to accomplish. As for the LCD, my guess is that smaller LCDs simply aren't available anymore. While the D40 is still using the same chip, I can't think of a single device still using the old 2" LCDs.
But by any metric the camera feels overpriced. At $3,000, the price meets or exceeds the cost of a D700, an A900, or a top-quality used m8. It is the same price (and essentially the same spec) that the original R-D1 launched at five years ago. It bears a chip that was launched in the Nikon D100 seven years ago. It uses a body based very closely on the R3A. All of this adds up to a camera that would be sensible and a steal at $1500-$2000, but at $3000 it just feels that Epson isn't taking this seriously, and that they really view this market as being overly niche. With that attitude, I don't get the sense that they're serious about a follow-up. I want badly for there to be more dRF options, and this product doesn't instill confidence in that possibility, sadly.
All of that said, I'm reserving final judgement for when the camera actually launches. Maybe it'll street for $2000. The pixels on that chip are nearly the size of those on a D700, so maybe this will be a modern take on that chip and the camera electronics will have been further developed and we'll see far better results than we're used to from the five year old RD-1. That would justify keeping the camera at 6MP. I'm not optimistic, but going forward, I'm open minded about what this camera could be.
Merkin
For the Weekend
http://nikonrumors.com/2009/03/02/nikon-d40-officially-discontinued.aspx
I wonder if the discontinuation of the D40 had anything to do with this? Epson may have been able to get the leftover 6mp chips at a steal...
I wonder if the discontinuation of the D40 had anything to do with this? Epson may have been able to get the leftover 6mp chips at a steal...
Yankl1
Newbie
Too bad news for the R-D1x
Epson are living in a big Vacuum
Anyone can see that a P&S camera like the G10 or LX3 are much better in all terms and the price!!??? O my
Big disappointment to all
Epson are living in a big Vacuum
Anyone can see that a P&S camera like the G10 or LX3 are much better in all terms and the price!!??? O my
Big disappointment to all
LCT
ex-newbie
Don't be worried it's not made for people who cannot see the difference between a DRF and a compact digicam.
cam
the need for speed
oh lord, not this again :bang:
all these "experts" who think that there are any similarities between a rangefinder and a small sensor P&S never cease to amuse me.
Geo
Established
Why are these kind of experts visiting this forum?
I really don't understand.
Have nothing against digicams, have a D-Lux 4 myself, but to compare it
with a range finder just because it has 10 milj.pix. is sad.
Geo
yanidel
Well-known
kuzano
Veteran
Incredibly smart move on Epsons part....
Incredibly smart move on Epsons part....
For photographers, Epson is known primarily for their superior printing products. I use, and have used, Epson for color printing since the first Epson Stylus Color models. Superior products. Every once in a while somebody... Canon, or HP comes out with a nice printer that falls on it's ass and spurs Epson to greater development and product.
Now, Epson has made a superb marketing choice with this redux of what has been a successful path for them in the digital rangefinder market. To be able to bring out a product involving virtually NO R&D at a competitive new price... Killer Move on their part.
The RD1 has proven to be popular in the used marketplace, considering the used pricing. Clearly Epson calculates that there are not enough RD1 variants on the streets to feed this strong used market.
Second, they haven't screwed up a successful product. There is clearly a demand for it, just the way it was. If they had done any development at all, the market would have been unknown. This product has a known following.
They have made a clear statement about the continued life of this product. Most other manufacturers can't or won't commit to a product model for more than a few months, or even weeks. This is an incredible departure from the norm in a volatile market. This is consistent with Epsons decisions to support successful printer models for longer periods than most other manufacturers. Obviously Epsons decision makers are on top of the real needs of the marketplace.
The 6 megapixel resolution is clearly not a shortcoming in the market that's supported the camera, since it's the reason the camera is:
1) a rangefinder
2) The right size body for the market
3) A reasonable solution for a wide range of lenses, for which bodies are getting old and costly to maintain, particularly Leica.
I gotta say at this point that this re-introduction of the line is no more disappointing than a manufacturer coming out with an anniversary or collector model, such as Leica, Nikon or Canon.
And, as a marketing person, this is a major coup. Wow, the opportunity to sell a product that is known, desired and almost pure profit for one's employer. Epson can be happy about that as the biggest plus in this sales scheme.
Good Job Epson!!!
Incredibly smart move on Epsons part....
For photographers, Epson is known primarily for their superior printing products. I use, and have used, Epson for color printing since the first Epson Stylus Color models. Superior products. Every once in a while somebody... Canon, or HP comes out with a nice printer that falls on it's ass and spurs Epson to greater development and product.
Now, Epson has made a superb marketing choice with this redux of what has been a successful path for them in the digital rangefinder market. To be able to bring out a product involving virtually NO R&D at a competitive new price... Killer Move on their part.
The RD1 has proven to be popular in the used marketplace, considering the used pricing. Clearly Epson calculates that there are not enough RD1 variants on the streets to feed this strong used market.
Second, they haven't screwed up a successful product. There is clearly a demand for it, just the way it was. If they had done any development at all, the market would have been unknown. This product has a known following.
They have made a clear statement about the continued life of this product. Most other manufacturers can't or won't commit to a product model for more than a few months, or even weeks. This is an incredible departure from the norm in a volatile market. This is consistent with Epsons decisions to support successful printer models for longer periods than most other manufacturers. Obviously Epsons decision makers are on top of the real needs of the marketplace.
The 6 megapixel resolution is clearly not a shortcoming in the market that's supported the camera, since it's the reason the camera is:
1) a rangefinder
2) The right size body for the market
3) A reasonable solution for a wide range of lenses, for which bodies are getting old and costly to maintain, particularly Leica.
I gotta say at this point that this re-introduction of the line is no more disappointing than a manufacturer coming out with an anniversary or collector model, such as Leica, Nikon or Canon.
And, as a marketing person, this is a major coup. Wow, the opportunity to sell a product that is known, desired and almost pure profit for one's employer. Epson can be happy about that as the biggest plus in this sales scheme.
Good Job Epson!!!
Last edited:
Yankl1
Newbie
Too bad news for the R-D1x
Epson are living in a big Vacuum
Anyone can see that a P&S camera like the G10 or LX3 are much better in all terms and the price!!??? O my
Big disappointment to all
The R-D1 has a Bessa body, just to add a CCD and a CPU card will give us something around $1000 to $1300 and this is a good price for todays market.
Epson are living in a big Vacuum
Anyone can see that a P&S camera like the G10 or LX3 are much better in all terms and the price!!??? O my
Big disappointment to all
The R-D1 has a Bessa body, just to add a CCD and a CPU card will give us something around $1000 to $1300 and this is a good price for todays market.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Tuolumne
Veteran
Paul T.
Veteran
Well, yes. And you're made up of water and carbon, plus a kilo or so of nitrogen or calcium. Price of parts = $10 or thereabouts?
dazedgonebye
Veteran
So, just for my understanding...
Is it the consensus that we think the new model will have a sensor from the D40 and that the D40 sensor is not the same as the old D70 sensor?
Sorry for the ignorance, I haven't followed the model numbers very well.
Is it the consensus that we think the new model will have a sensor from the D40 and that the D40 sensor is not the same as the old D70 sensor?
Sorry for the ignorance, I haven't followed the model numbers very well.
LCT
ex-newbie
Not mine at least. BTW what's the point with the D40? I must have missed something. Anyway the R-D1 had a D100 sensor, so did the R-D1s and so probably has the R-D1x.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Hey, sounds like Mr. K. will be making more money selling color-Skopar lenses and Bessa chassis at wholesale. This directly benefits me as I have been loving his RF products since the introduction of the CV 15/4.5 and can't wait to see what he comes up with next. I want Mr. K to prosper and to continue his innovative and interesting investigation into RF gear production. Additionally, I hope that Epson sells out of this run of new RD's (like they sold out the last run, obviously) and that all the folks who are lucky enough to get their hands on one modestly but steadily increase the number of photographers on the lookout for M-compatible/adaptable lenses. All of this is good for anyone interested in this forum enough to have read down to this post! My worry five years ago was that digital was going to finally put the last nail in the coffin on RF photography. How nice to have found those worries unfounded.
Ben Marks
Ben Marks