VinceC
Veteran
I do have to agree with the notion that Nikon owners love their lenses, so there probably isn't much of a market for a Zeiss 50. The Nikkor 50s are all so good! Cosina found out that the market is measured in the hundreds.
On the other hand, Zeiss will probably spend just a few dollars to tool a simple fixed mount for the Nikon S system, then sell an already developed lens for more than $900. If they sell 100 of them, that's probably $50,000 pure profit plus the raised awareness among classic camera enthusiests.
On the other hand, Zeiss will probably spend just a few dollars to tool a simple fixed mount for the Nikon S system, then sell an already developed lens for more than $900. If they sell 100 of them, that's probably $50,000 pure profit plus the raised awareness among classic camera enthusiests.
NIKON KIU
Did you say Nippon Kogaku
You bet, we are loyal and we are not buying no stinking Zeiss lens for no $900VinceC said:
May be if it was $500
I think I may start a poll
Kiu
NIKON KIU
Did you say Nippon Kogaku
ferider said:
I welcome anyone with a Nikkor...
Roland you are always welcome to post around here, I actually think you should do it more often.
Kiu
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Just to add fuel to this debate of Zeiss/FSU lenses etc on Nikon rangefinders. I just finished shooting with all my Zeiss lenses and the "mopping" up consists of some Russian lens in LTM (an Orion and a Jupiter 85/2}.
My conclusion from this highly unscientific test - no resolution charts, no "matched" and "tested" bodies - just what I had on hand.
I used a couple of S3's, one Millenium and one older one, two Nikon S and a SP.
The lenses have been accumulated over about 10 years, usually at swapmeets and I bought them because they were cheap or in moments of dementia!
Here is my opinions:
21/4,5 Biogon: Still one of the best 21's made - period! The VC 21 is handier and I can read the aperture/distance on it and it weighs less, so it gets used more, but the Biogon is a stunning performer for black/white.
28f8 Tessar: This an uncoupled and uncoated lens that I picked up in Japan a couple of years ago. Cute lens too! It is very compact and truly a hassle to use. Miniscule numbers and black letters on bright chrome. Its performance is actually quite good. Surprisingly resistant to flare but admittedly it is more of a "conversation piece" than a practical lens. I do like the F32 setting and then the lens opening looks like a pin-hole!
Biogon 35/2,8 Early. This is a massive lens for its speed, heavy and with one of the most scary rear elements ever put on a lens. Good performer and once stopped down to f4 it is sharp enough. Wide open you can see slight softening from the "mis" matched focussing of the Nikon versus Contax. It will flare if you are not careful.
Biogon 35/2,8 Late, postwar with T* coating. This is pretty close to a 35/2,5 Nikkor in performance and not as heavy as the older version. Slight focus shift at f2.8 but it is actually usable as a wide angle on a Nikon.
Planar 35/3,5: Very nice lens. I dont know if it is the glass or the lack of coating on it, but it is very sharp, even at f3.5 and some of the nicest mid tones I have seen in black/white. The slow speed most likely accounts for the lack of focus shift.
Great sunny weather lens and it rivals the Nikkor 35/3.5 in performance.
Jupiter 35/2,8: Yes it does scratch the front plate a bit and occasionally binds in the focus when mounted, but, hey it was $ 40 at a swap. It is an adequate lens, not great and it will flare. On the other hand, it is cheap enough to stick on a beater body until you find a 35/2,5 or 35/1.8.
Sonnar 50/f1.5: Here you can see a bit more of the focus shift, particularly at f1.5 or f2. It does have a very nice out of focus rendition and if most of your stuff is in daylight, it will work fine.
Sonnar 50/f2.0: This is a good lens and with f2 as a maximum aperture, the focus shift is less pronounced. Nice smooth lens and would work well as a standard lens and also as a portrait lens.
Menopta 53/f1.8: This lens I got from Brian Sweeney and he shimmed to Nikon focus. It is very good - better than either of the 50 Sonnars and it rivals even my 50/2 Nikkors! You can get internal flare from the aperture blades, but it only has happened to me a couple of time (and I have shot a lot of film with this lens). Great starter lens if you are going slow and cheap into Nikons. A beater S2 and one of these lenses is not a bad "starting" kit.
Sonnar 85/2.0: I did expect some focus shift and got it too. Particularly in close quarters at f2/2.8. Substantial lens, but comfortable to hold and very good image quality from f4 on and at medium to infinity. No match for a Nikkor 85f2 or a Apo-Lanthar 85f3.5 though. Interesting "central flare" on a couple of shots too.
I also have a 50f2.8 Tessar in LTM fit so that will go with the Orion and the 85 Jupiter later.
One thing that drives me nuts with the Zeiss lenses is the lack of click stops on their aperture rings. I was forever knocking apertures out of line and screwed up exposures. The build quality of these lenses is stunning - this was workmanship of the highest class and it is almost worthwhile to keep one or two for that alone.
I dont see the Zeiss or FSU lenses as replacements for the original Nikkors by any standard, but at least I can nod sagely and say they do work on the Nikon's!
The definite "keepers" of the Zeiss lenses are the 21/4,5 Biogon (nothing like it in Nikon mount or Contax). I would keep the 28f8 as it is an interesting lens and it fits perfectly on my Black Dial S2 with the dead rangefinder. Slim enough that you can slip it into a pocket too. The 35f3.5 Planar is so good that it will remain a user and I will try to do a run against the two 35/3,5 Nikkors that I have (one early and one late). The others are good, but pose no threat to the Nikkors.
I did "learn to like" the Nikon S's again. Squinty little finder but are they ever built to last! For some reason I have three of them and they do have little quirks - the slow speeds tend to vary according to the cameras mood. Occasionally they will decide that when you put it 1/4 sec you are joking and it will decide to to a T setting! All three of them do this intermittently! Not a big deal, but it does give you some strange looking negs. And, no - they have been serviced recently (well two of them have). I also like that 24x34 frame - makes it easy to mark negatives between frames. Great starter Nikon as they are cheap too.
What next: I am loading up 100+ feet (160 actually) of Agfapan 400 S (Surveilance film) and sticking my Millenium 50/1.4 on the black S3 and the 35/1,8 SP 2005 lens on a SP (and the 21/4 VC on a S2, or maybe on one of the Nikon S's).
Goodbye Zeikon Project and it was a blast. At least we got a hot and heavy debate going here! You can see some of the shots from this project by going to my Flickr site and click on The Zeikon Set.
Oh, just to keep webmaster Fred awake - I will do a comparison of the Planar 35/3,5 versus the Nikkor 35f3.5 at some time!
My conclusion from this highly unscientific test - no resolution charts, no "matched" and "tested" bodies - just what I had on hand.
I used a couple of S3's, one Millenium and one older one, two Nikon S and a SP.
The lenses have been accumulated over about 10 years, usually at swapmeets and I bought them because they were cheap or in moments of dementia!
Here is my opinions:
21/4,5 Biogon: Still one of the best 21's made - period! The VC 21 is handier and I can read the aperture/distance on it and it weighs less, so it gets used more, but the Biogon is a stunning performer for black/white.
28f8 Tessar: This an uncoupled and uncoated lens that I picked up in Japan a couple of years ago. Cute lens too! It is very compact and truly a hassle to use. Miniscule numbers and black letters on bright chrome. Its performance is actually quite good. Surprisingly resistant to flare but admittedly it is more of a "conversation piece" than a practical lens. I do like the F32 setting and then the lens opening looks like a pin-hole!
Biogon 35/2,8 Early. This is a massive lens for its speed, heavy and with one of the most scary rear elements ever put on a lens. Good performer and once stopped down to f4 it is sharp enough. Wide open you can see slight softening from the "mis" matched focussing of the Nikon versus Contax. It will flare if you are not careful.
Biogon 35/2,8 Late, postwar with T* coating. This is pretty close to a 35/2,5 Nikkor in performance and not as heavy as the older version. Slight focus shift at f2.8 but it is actually usable as a wide angle on a Nikon.
Planar 35/3,5: Very nice lens. I dont know if it is the glass or the lack of coating on it, but it is very sharp, even at f3.5 and some of the nicest mid tones I have seen in black/white. The slow speed most likely accounts for the lack of focus shift.
Great sunny weather lens and it rivals the Nikkor 35/3.5 in performance.
Jupiter 35/2,8: Yes it does scratch the front plate a bit and occasionally binds in the focus when mounted, but, hey it was $ 40 at a swap. It is an adequate lens, not great and it will flare. On the other hand, it is cheap enough to stick on a beater body until you find a 35/2,5 or 35/1.8.
Sonnar 50/f1.5: Here you can see a bit more of the focus shift, particularly at f1.5 or f2. It does have a very nice out of focus rendition and if most of your stuff is in daylight, it will work fine.
Sonnar 50/f2.0: This is a good lens and with f2 as a maximum aperture, the focus shift is less pronounced. Nice smooth lens and would work well as a standard lens and also as a portrait lens.
Menopta 53/f1.8: This lens I got from Brian Sweeney and he shimmed to Nikon focus. It is very good - better than either of the 50 Sonnars and it rivals even my 50/2 Nikkors! You can get internal flare from the aperture blades, but it only has happened to me a couple of time (and I have shot a lot of film with this lens). Great starter lens if you are going slow and cheap into Nikons. A beater S2 and one of these lenses is not a bad "starting" kit.
Sonnar 85/2.0: I did expect some focus shift and got it too. Particularly in close quarters at f2/2.8. Substantial lens, but comfortable to hold and very good image quality from f4 on and at medium to infinity. No match for a Nikkor 85f2 or a Apo-Lanthar 85f3.5 though. Interesting "central flare" on a couple of shots too.
I also have a 50f2.8 Tessar in LTM fit so that will go with the Orion and the 85 Jupiter later.
One thing that drives me nuts with the Zeiss lenses is the lack of click stops on their aperture rings. I was forever knocking apertures out of line and screwed up exposures. The build quality of these lenses is stunning - this was workmanship of the highest class and it is almost worthwhile to keep one or two for that alone.
I dont see the Zeiss or FSU lenses as replacements for the original Nikkors by any standard, but at least I can nod sagely and say they do work on the Nikon's!
The definite "keepers" of the Zeiss lenses are the 21/4,5 Biogon (nothing like it in Nikon mount or Contax). I would keep the 28f8 as it is an interesting lens and it fits perfectly on my Black Dial S2 with the dead rangefinder. Slim enough that you can slip it into a pocket too. The 35f3.5 Planar is so good that it will remain a user and I will try to do a run against the two 35/3,5 Nikkors that I have (one early and one late). The others are good, but pose no threat to the Nikkors.
I did "learn to like" the Nikon S's again. Squinty little finder but are they ever built to last! For some reason I have three of them and they do have little quirks - the slow speeds tend to vary according to the cameras mood. Occasionally they will decide that when you put it 1/4 sec you are joking and it will decide to to a T setting! All three of them do this intermittently! Not a big deal, but it does give you some strange looking negs. And, no - they have been serviced recently (well two of them have). I also like that 24x34 frame - makes it easy to mark negatives between frames. Great starter Nikon as they are cheap too.
What next: I am loading up 100+ feet (160 actually) of Agfapan 400 S (Surveilance film) and sticking my Millenium 50/1.4 on the black S3 and the 35/1,8 SP 2005 lens on a SP (and the 21/4 VC on a S2, or maybe on one of the Nikon S's).
Goodbye Zeikon Project and it was a blast. At least we got a hot and heavy debate going here! You can see some of the shots from this project by going to my Flickr site and click on The Zeikon Set.
Oh, just to keep webmaster Fred awake - I will do a comparison of the Planar 35/3,5 versus the Nikkor 35f3.5 at some time!
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
In the meantime I may shoot some fotooos with a drilled can lid and see how they compare with the Nikkors.
(Actually I have seen photos taken with modified lenses that stop down to F 128 and the results are amazing when shooting miniatures. There was a model builder in St. Louis who did a spread in Model Railroader shooting this way, and the shots looked real because of the depth of field.)
I did this with some 4x5 years ago. I made up F256 Waterhouse stops for a Macro Sironar (240mm) and shot some architectural models for a firm. This was a complex model showing piping and conveyor belts for a huge pulp and paper plant in Poland. Of course, with t256 you need a lot of light and I remember popping my old Balcar's at least 15-20 times for each shot. The Ektachromes looked stunning though, although there was some "fringing" at the edges of the transparancy due to refractive diffusion.
I suspect that the little 28f8 could work the same way at f32. I do have a home made screw to Nikon Rf mount gadget and if I stuck that on a small extension tube for a LTM Leica it could work. Obviously another "winter" project coming up!
(Actually I have seen photos taken with modified lenses that stop down to F 128 and the results are amazing when shooting miniatures. There was a model builder in St. Louis who did a spread in Model Railroader shooting this way, and the shots looked real because of the depth of field.)
I did this with some 4x5 years ago. I made up F256 Waterhouse stops for a Macro Sironar (240mm) and shot some architectural models for a firm. This was a complex model showing piping and conveyor belts for a huge pulp and paper plant in Poland. Of course, with t256 you need a lot of light and I remember popping my old Balcar's at least 15-20 times for each shot. The Ektachromes looked stunning though, although there was some "fringing" at the edges of the transparancy due to refractive diffusion.
I suspect that the little 28f8 could work the same way at f32. I do have a home made screw to Nikon Rf mount gadget and if I stuck that on a small extension tube for a LTM Leica it could work. Obviously another "winter" project coming up!
VinceC
Veteran
One thing worth mentioning: The Soviet lenses weigh next to nothing. An Orion 28/6, a Jupiter 35/2.8 and Jupiter 50/2 collectively weigh about as much as one chrome Nikkor lens. And the Orion 28/6, with its scale focus, is also the most "pancake" lens I've ever used. If I'm doing serious hiking, I'll sometimes carry a couple of Soviet lenses instead of a heavier Nikkor.
Sonnar2
Well-known
Like Vince. Weight and size is important. My favorite hiking/ riding camera is still the "plastik" Bessa R with a couple of small Canon (50/1.5, 35/2) and C/V lenses. If my main lens line would be Nikon I would probably take a R2S, a 50/1.4 + 35/1.8.
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jsuominen
Well-known
Back to the original topic. Zeiss has put a press release of S-mount Sonnar 50/1.5 on their website at http://www.zeiss.com/photo or direct link http://www.zeiss.com/C1256A770030BC...D8072563C600B43CC125736300241538?OpenDocument . Strange I didn't see any "Nikon" word mentioned in that Zeiss press release.
BillBingham2
Registered User
I would have thought a smart person would have gotten that when they paid for the F lenses!
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
BillBingham2
Registered User
They are from 3/4's of a million years ago. They are AI (not sure about the S part), not the new electronic F mount. They only use Nikon in the area of compatability with cameras.
I agree, they do not have the beauty of the 1970s era metal focusing ring Nikkors. They remind me of Topicon (spelling) lenses.
B2 (;->
I agree, they do not have the beauty of the 1970s era metal focusing ring Nikkors. They remind me of Topicon (spelling) lenses.
B2 (;->
The hunting trip was successful enough for the lens to get the go ahead. My copy is waiting at the store ready to pick up
VinceC
Veteran
That sounds great. Let us know what it's like once you start shooting with it.
Mister E
Well-known
Tom, I'd love to drop $1500 on a 21/4.5 in s-mount. Please convey this to Mr. K. Either than or any coupled 18mm in s-mount. I know it will probably be a cold day in hell for him to do something like this.
Also, any insight on why he hasn't made another batch of f-s/c adapters?
JonR
Well-known
I can echo that but I guess the likelyhood of seeing a new S-mount lens is practically zero. The 50/1.5 Zeiss 2007 lens was probably the last one...
/Jon R
