raid
Dad Photographer
We said so. The issue is the parents.
[New test photos released] Leica Summicron 35/2 Eight Element copy made in China
- Thread starter KEVIN-XU 愛 forever
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rscheffler
Well-known
Earlier I seconded the 60/1.2. Since we're wishing, another lens on my wishlist is the 35 Lux pre-ASPH.
I guess these are relatively common, but price-wise, nearly as costly as the Cron v1. There are also variants such at the modern CV35/1.4 or other vintage lenses, such as the Canon 35/1.5 LTM (which also commands a high price).
I think for me the attraction to a 35 Lux pre-ASPH replica would be its faithful ergonomic and optical design, which none of the others provide, while landing hopefully at a reasonable price. I'm also attracted to the concept of replica lenses because I want to use them. I don't want to compete in an environment with collectors and the inflated prices of collectible lenses. But of course, one must acknowledge that without the collectors and their effect on the market, there wouldn't be this opportunity for someone to step in and provide reasonably priced, brand new, fully functional replicas.
I guess these are relatively common, but price-wise, nearly as costly as the Cron v1. There are also variants such at the modern CV35/1.4 or other vintage lenses, such as the Canon 35/1.5 LTM (which also commands a high price).
I think for me the attraction to a 35 Lux pre-ASPH replica would be its faithful ergonomic and optical design, which none of the others provide, while landing hopefully at a reasonable price. I'm also attracted to the concept of replica lenses because I want to use them. I don't want to compete in an environment with collectors and the inflated prices of collectible lenses. But of course, one must acknowledge that without the collectors and their effect on the market, there wouldn't be this opportunity for someone to step in and provide reasonably priced, brand new, fully functional replicas.
Aristo
Member
I would like to ask the german forum members if someone knows, or could do an estimate on how much the final cost for the 35mm f/2.0 Summicron replica would be including customs duties.
Thank you very much!
Thank you very much!
rscheffler
Well-known
In this case, it appears "The Maker" has duplicated the Cron as precisely as possible, which should mean near identical optical characteristics to the original, including various 'flaws' that make the lens interesting for some.
7Artisans/TTArtisans seem to be making unique lenses with quite good/high quality relative to other modern designs at a low price point. While the 50/1.1. and 35/2 are Sonnar variants and not necessarily the strongest optical performers (apparently the intent of the design, at least for the 50), the 28/1.4 and 75/1.25 seem to be very competitive with much more expensive lenses. Not sure how the TTA 35/1.4 compares to something like the 35 Lux ASPH, or the 21/1.5 to any of the other recent fast 21s, but like they are not 'vintage' in optical design.
raid
Dad Photographer
We might as wekk aim high and get the replica for V1 Summilux pre-asph. They sell for $5000.
I have a V2 Lux 35/1.4.
raid
Dad Photographer
If we want excellent lenses that can be put to use, lenses made by 7A or TTA are bargains. I need a 21mm lens in M mount. the TTA 21/1.5 costs less than $500. Users like it.
james.liam
Well-known
But who really needs a 21/ 1.5?
teddy
Jose Morales
Hi Kevin, I have one more question before I fully make up my mind before the LTM version release.
Will the 35/2 Replica LTM version be given all considerations as the first batch?
Will I be given the option of personalised engraving, multi-coating, colour choice etc?
I do not intend on re-selling it of course, I'm more concerned of having something unique from the very beginning in my hands and enjoying that in my life.
Should I just buy the M version, or wait for the LTM version as it will be given the same considerations as the M? Will the LTM version cost a little more?
Will the 35/2 Replica LTM version be given all considerations as the first batch?
Will I be given the option of personalised engraving, multi-coating, colour choice etc?
I do not intend on re-selling it of course, I'm more concerned of having something unique from the very beginning in my hands and enjoying that in my life.
Should I just buy the M version, or wait for the LTM version as it will be given the same considerations as the M? Will the LTM version cost a little more?
35/1.4 Summilux steel rim
https://www.setadelstudios.com/prod...sion-steel-rim-black-red-scale-lens-caps-rare
https://www.setadelstudios.com/prod...sion-steel-rim-black-red-scale-lens-caps-rare
jshcrlsn
obsessive bumbling idiot
Some thoughts from a youngish (not rich) guy:
I have been following along quietly so far and want to weigh in a bit here.
First:
I have read some confusing comments about lens design comparisons and mimicry here from some of the big makers in the style of Leica (Voigtlander) and would like to clear that up.
The 35mm f1.4 Nokton is a direct copy of the V1 35mm 8-element Cron design. The design has been slightly stretched to extend it to open up to 1.4. (great single coated and a phenomenal lens...try it stopped down slightly)
The 40mm f1.4 Nokton is a direct copy of the 35mm f1.4 Lux pre-asph design. Again, the design has been slightly manipulated to adjust focal length and maximum aperture. (a phenomenal lens...try it stopped down slightly)
The 50mm f1.1 Nokton is a direct design copy of the Noctilux 1.0.
(poorly executed in my opinion and does not do the design justice)
The 50mm f1.5 Nokton is a direct design copy of the original 50mm f1.2 Noctilux including the special rear element.
(Probably Voigts best of its copies and caries the reputation to prove it)
The 75mm f1.8 Heliar is a direct copy of the 7.3cm f1.9 hektor as I think another member mentioned earlier in this thread.
(this is an excellent lens!)
There are others of coarse but I wanted to speak specifically about these because a lot of discussion here seems to be centered around interest in these rare old style fast lenses at these focal lengths ranges.
I have a vested interest in what this creator is doing and based on what I have seen from Kevin's "really nice" tests I will be putting my money and support into this project. It seems that just maybe this team of builders are close to capturing the "soul" that Leica has imbued into their older fast glass. There are many imitators out there but none of them seem to be able to capture the balance of flavors (specifically colors and contrast or lack there of) that Leica provides. At least in the fast lens category.
When I look at Voiglander I see that their fast lenses of old style design are often over extended a bit, vignette a lot, and do not have the color (and sometimes OOF) characteristics of the Leica they imitate. For me this is a deal breaker for many of the the fast lenses they make. What makers like Voigtlander have got right is their old style simple designs of smaller aperture lenses (specifically the 50mm f3.5 Heliar comes to mind). All of their Color Heliar and Skopar lenses will knock any photographers socks off. I mean they are absolutely stellar by any standard and have loads of character. They are also very well built and mostly in the old Leica lens ergonomic style.
The old triplets (specifically Tessar types like the Elmar) are easily recreated with today's tech in my opinion.
The fast 7Artisans glass seem to have an interesting offering but it is not in the style of Leica and is somewhat of an amalgam of 7A unique and wild style+Zeiss+Leica look heavily weighted in the Contax Sonnar glass types.
I do not have the money to throw down on Leica fast and/or collectible glass. The point I am trying to make is that we should really take the time to provide valuable feedback to Kevin and the engineers and workers at LLL. We should consider what has already been done and done well, what is available to us at a reasonable price on the current market vs what is realistically out of reach for most and what makes the most sense to knock out first. Who knows how far these guys will be able to take this project. It seems that they value the feedback coming from this forum and so while the iron is hot lets make sure we provide them with concise and valuable information.
My vote goes straight to the big ones: Following the 8E Cron and V1 Noct I think its should be the 50mm F1.0 Noct and the 75mm f1.4 Lux. Then the Pre-Aspherical 35 Lux all in M-Mount. These are the pride of Leica so why wouldn't we go straight there before hitting all the weird ones. I am also in agreement with replicating any of the ELCAN lenses as well. That just makes sense to me...The 90mm F1 ELCAN would be the coolest thing I can dream up.
Kevin,
Thank you for holding the front and connecting us to this unique project...I am sure its a bit messy for you at the moment. I am very excited to try my 8E Cron with the hopes that is has the 'soul" that has made me lust over Leica glass above all others for the past several years. If I had to throw out one critical stress point while making these clones it would be get the color pallet and contrast (micro contrast) ratio per design just right to the original...this is something most makers cannot do. I know you are overwhelmed here and I hope that our over exuberance and tedious requests with this project do not break you down in any way.
Happy holidays all
I have been following along quietly so far and want to weigh in a bit here.
First:
I have read some confusing comments about lens design comparisons and mimicry here from some of the big makers in the style of Leica (Voigtlander) and would like to clear that up.
The 35mm f1.4 Nokton is a direct copy of the V1 35mm 8-element Cron design. The design has been slightly stretched to extend it to open up to 1.4. (great single coated and a phenomenal lens...try it stopped down slightly)
The 40mm f1.4 Nokton is a direct copy of the 35mm f1.4 Lux pre-asph design. Again, the design has been slightly manipulated to adjust focal length and maximum aperture. (a phenomenal lens...try it stopped down slightly)
The 50mm f1.1 Nokton is a direct design copy of the Noctilux 1.0.
(poorly executed in my opinion and does not do the design justice)
The 50mm f1.5 Nokton is a direct design copy of the original 50mm f1.2 Noctilux including the special rear element.
(Probably Voigts best of its copies and caries the reputation to prove it)
The 75mm f1.8 Heliar is a direct copy of the 7.3cm f1.9 hektor as I think another member mentioned earlier in this thread.
(this is an excellent lens!)
There are others of coarse but I wanted to speak specifically about these because a lot of discussion here seems to be centered around interest in these rare old style fast lenses at these focal lengths ranges.
I have a vested interest in what this creator is doing and based on what I have seen from Kevin's "really nice" tests I will be putting my money and support into this project. It seems that just maybe this team of builders are close to capturing the "soul" that Leica has imbued into their older fast glass. There are many imitators out there but none of them seem to be able to capture the balance of flavors (specifically colors and contrast or lack there of) that Leica provides. At least in the fast lens category.
When I look at Voiglander I see that their fast lenses of old style design are often over extended a bit, vignette a lot, and do not have the color (and sometimes OOF) characteristics of the Leica they imitate. For me this is a deal breaker for many of the the fast lenses they make. What makers like Voigtlander have got right is their old style simple designs of smaller aperture lenses (specifically the 50mm f3.5 Heliar comes to mind). All of their Color Heliar and Skopar lenses will knock any photographers socks off. I mean they are absolutely stellar by any standard and have loads of character. They are also very well built and mostly in the old Leica lens ergonomic style.
The old triplets (specifically Tessar types like the Elmar) are easily recreated with today's tech in my opinion.
The fast 7Artisans glass seem to have an interesting offering but it is not in the style of Leica and is somewhat of an amalgam of 7A unique and wild style+Zeiss+Leica look heavily weighted in the Contax Sonnar glass types.
I do not have the money to throw down on Leica fast and/or collectible glass. The point I am trying to make is that we should really take the time to provide valuable feedback to Kevin and the engineers and workers at LLL. We should consider what has already been done and done well, what is available to us at a reasonable price on the current market vs what is realistically out of reach for most and what makes the most sense to knock out first. Who knows how far these guys will be able to take this project. It seems that they value the feedback coming from this forum and so while the iron is hot lets make sure we provide them with concise and valuable information.
My vote goes straight to the big ones: Following the 8E Cron and V1 Noct I think its should be the 50mm F1.0 Noct and the 75mm f1.4 Lux. Then the Pre-Aspherical 35 Lux all in M-Mount. These are the pride of Leica so why wouldn't we go straight there before hitting all the weird ones. I am also in agreement with replicating any of the ELCAN lenses as well. That just makes sense to me...The 90mm F1 ELCAN would be the coolest thing I can dream up.
Kevin,
Thank you for holding the front and connecting us to this unique project...I am sure its a bit messy for you at the moment. I am very excited to try my 8E Cron with the hopes that is has the 'soul" that has made me lust over Leica glass above all others for the past several years. If I had to throw out one critical stress point while making these clones it would be get the color pallet and contrast (micro contrast) ratio per design just right to the original...this is something most makers cannot do. I know you are overwhelmed here and I hope that our over exuberance and tedious requests with this project do not break you down in any way.
Happy holidays all
teddy
Jose Morales
These comments deserve a big clap, I totally agree on these, and thumbs up to Kevin also. I wish all the best to The Maker and this project.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
... the softest 35mm lens wide-open I've ever owned!
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Not the 50 f.1 noct...nooooo..
The inflated price of mine...will take a dive..
The inflated price of mine...will take a dive..
raid
Dad Photographer
Hi Josh,
This is a long post, and it was your fourth post ever here!
The problem with the 35/1.4 Nokton is too much distortion, and really ugly OOF, and pretty soft wide open. The 40 is much better with regards to distortion and a little better with bokeh, but it's pretty variable, from bad to mediocre. Not sure what their optical designs are based upon, but I've owned both and sold both. Much rather have the original 8 element than either of these modern lenses...
teddy
Jose Morales
Yes, I agree on the Noctons. Even though I like the colour rendition and contrast sometimes, it’s the distortion that has prevented me from getting any of these. Specially when I like to shoot the sea and horizon every now and then.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have been buying Leica lenses but only ones that had affordable prices. I was lucky to find a V1 Summicron 35/2, Rigid Summicron 50/2, Summilux 35/1.4 pre-asph, Summilux 75/1.4.
teddy
Jose Morales
Hello Raid, you’ve been fortunate to have acquired these lenses, I have too and wish I could afford a 50/1.4 pre Aph, a 35/1.4 pre and an 85/1.4. These are my other dream lenses.
rscheffler
Well-known
I got the 21 Lux back in 2011 when I had an M9 and was often shooting indoors. The already very small image buffer of the M9 dropped by half, as did the fps rate, if the ISO was at 800 and higher, IIRC, which severely interfered with how I photographed events, etc. I had a ZM21/2.8 already, but having as fast a lens as possible allowed using lower ISOs to hold off the buffer problem. BTW, this buffer and fps 'quirk' is also present in the M240 at ISO 1250 and higher, but isn't present in the M10.
Having that speed in an UWA lens helps with maintaining usable shutter speeds at specific ISOs, particularly useful for moving subjects. It also offers some creative DOF control for more effective subject separation from backgrounds. Yes, everyone now seems to shoot everything wide open with f/1.4 lenses just because they can... which isn't to say there isn't use for such applications.
Then came along the CV21/1.8 at about 1/5 the cost of the Lux (at the time), which I bought out of curiosity to compare. It was very closely competitive with the Lux and in some ways better (no mid-zone dip, simple barrel distortion and closer, but RF uncoupled MFD).
Now we have the TTArtisans 21/1.5 at roughly half the price of the CV...
All that said, I do think 7A/TTA are jumping on the fast lens bandwagon because it's 'sexy' and catches peoples' attention. Would they get as much press/interest if instead they released a 50/2 Sonnar variant instead of a 50/1.1, or a 28/2.8, 75/2.5, 21/2.8, etc.? A 21/2 would have addressed a hole in the RF lens market if it could be more compact than the CV 1.8, as would a 24 or 25/2. Who knows, maybe that's still to come?
And now, back to our regular programming...
raid
Dad Photographer
I also miss not getting the 50/1.4 but the replica 50/1.2 will do. 🙂
Some Leica lenses are quite affordable.
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