raid
Dad Photographer
The details are awesome in this image. Hopefully it is the lens that is doing it, but most likely, the M10 and image size play a role here.
[New test photos released] Leica Summicron 35/2 Eight Element copy made in China
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aizan
Veteran
OT: Why did apertures scales become equidistant when light value coupling became common?
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
I noticed the cell tower too when I was uploading the images. Usually, even with a short tele, they do not seem so sharp as this! I think the nature of the day had something to do with it - it was very cold, clear, and with little atmospheric turbulence. But the lens and the M10 both should be given credit here too.
About the LV coupling issue, of course one could not lock the speed and f/stop dials together and move them conjointly without equidistant settings. I remember at the time really hating the LV stuff as it slowed things down and was a finger buster in use, but felt that it was simply more elegant that the click stops were now evenly spaced. I have no idea how much engineering had to be done to make this all happen
About the LV coupling issue, of course one could not lock the speed and f/stop dials together and move them conjointly without equidistant settings. I remember at the time really hating the LV stuff as it slowed things down and was a finger buster in use, but felt that it was simply more elegant that the click stops were now evenly spaced. I have no idea how much engineering had to be done to make this all happen
aizan
Veteran
That makes sense. I never thought of that!
But why would a feature from (non)folding fixed-lens cameras make its way into Leica lenses? It just became "normal" or en vogue?
But why would a feature from (non)folding fixed-lens cameras make its way into Leica lenses? It just became "normal" or en vogue?
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
When Leitz developed the M3 after WWII, it needed its shutter speed dial to have linear speed markings and click stops, so that an external but coupled light meter could be attached. Around the same time the lenses for the M3 had both equidistant and click-stopped aperture settings. There was technically no reason why the latter HAD to be developed that way, but I think it likely that then both the speed dial and the aperture settings could be felt in the dark, and would behave similarly. Certainly I have used the earlier M series Leicas this way. One just simply knew where one was at, without having to shift one’s eyes rom the finder. Just as with the focus lever on M lenses, one knew the approximate focus from the position of that lever. It all became somewhat instinctive.
teddy
Jose Morales
Thanks for the Viewfinder write up! I always knew that the Summicron 35/2 Type 1 has typical coma. The new Replica has a touch more coma (comprimises and trade off's). Can someone elaborate on this a little more? I don't mind coma in an every day lens or even a moderate amount of astigmatism because these qualities give a lens character and more 3D "form" in certain situations. It can be pleasing in the appropriate situation.
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
I too would be interested in hearing from someone knowledgable about coma. I know it is one of the Seidel Aberrations, and is the effect one gets if one focuses a magnifying lens with an image of the sun, and then tilts it. It probably is one of the more tolerable of the Seidel errors and thus leaving it is preferable to leaving other aberrations IMO; but this is only a lay-person’s opinion.
Leitz / Leica produced the 35/1.4 Summilux for a long time (? 40 years), and at f/1.4 it had marked coma, such that one only used it wide open under circumstances where this was the only way to get an image, or for the rather weird smearing special effect which happened if there were any points of light in the image. I always considered the Summilux as sort of like the 8-element opened one stop more from its maximum, although this is probably not an accurate statement. It finally took aspheric elements to have a 35/1.4 which did not have a high level of coma.
I wonder whether the residual coma here interferes with bokeh and makes it harsh. Anyone here have an opinion?
Ed
Leitz / Leica produced the 35/1.4 Summilux for a long time (? 40 years), and at f/1.4 it had marked coma, such that one only used it wide open under circumstances where this was the only way to get an image, or for the rather weird smearing special effect which happened if there were any points of light in the image. I always considered the Summilux as sort of like the 8-element opened one stop more from its maximum, although this is probably not an accurate statement. It finally took aspheric elements to have a 35/1.4 which did not have a high level of coma.
I wonder whether the residual coma here interferes with bokeh and makes it harsh. Anyone here have an opinion?
Ed
raid
Dad Photographer
I have a pre-asph Summilux 35/1.4, and I find its performance challenging when used wide open, but I view it also as its charm. It is a special lens. I do not own an asph version of it, but from the posted images that I have seen, it is not what I prefer to use.
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
Thank you, Raid. I own both, and do appreciate the charm of the non-aspheric version wide open, although it has been years since I used it actively. I don’t think I ever tried it on a digital camera, so I may do just that.
Ed
Ed
raid
Dad Photographer
I love some of the images that I have taken with my M9 and the 35/1.4 pre-asph. The colors come out looking pastel. I usually try using aperture 2.0 before 1.4 becomes a requirement. Once, Peter Karbe gave some of us a 75 minute lecture on Leica optics. He stressed that Leica lenses wer designed to always be used wide open.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
I have the 35mm 1.4 pre
oldwino
Well-known
I've got to imagine that Peter Karbe was referring to the lenses that he designed, not lenses from 40-50-60 years ago.
raid
Dad Photographer
Not really, as he was giving us a tour through the history of Leica lenses and their designs. It was not just about his lenses, I recall. His talk was "Tradition and Innovation".
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Agree on it being challenging, specially on b/w film. I fared better when using color/slide film. Charming lens nonetheless.
Marcelo
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
I heard / saw Peter Karbe's presentation also - not sure it was the same one that Raid attended - but it was how the various generations of lenses had improved sequentially on the excellence of the preceding generation. Karbe did make the point strongly that Leica lenses are meant to be used wide open, that one only needs to stop down for DOF or presumably exposure issues. He implied that this had been Leica's philosophy going back also.
I did not think to ask him "but what about the first generation 35/1.4?" Personally, I would consider that a special case. But of course it can be used wide open, especially if what one wants (which people expressly did when it was introduced) is reportage. Like I said in my review of the new 8-element, it is my impression that bokeh, the Nocti's behavior wide open, or here coma at f/1.4 were not what the lens designers back then cared about. They were making lenses for available light work as best they could.
And I recall fairly far back (?1970's) that Leitz was making a distinction about how their lenses could be used wide open, whereas the fast f-stops on other brands were more of a vanity / marketing issue.
Ed
I did not think to ask him "but what about the first generation 35/1.4?" Personally, I would consider that a special case. But of course it can be used wide open, especially if what one wants (which people expressly did when it was introduced) is reportage. Like I said in my review of the new 8-element, it is my impression that bokeh, the Nocti's behavior wide open, or here coma at f/1.4 were not what the lens designers back then cared about. They were making lenses for available light work as best they could.
And I recall fairly far back (?1970's) that Leitz was making a distinction about how their lenses could be used wide open, whereas the fast f-stops on other brands were more of a vanity / marketing issue.
Ed
raid
Dad Photographer
After seeing his presentation, I started to use lenses wide open more often than I had been doing in past years. I got the 35/1.4 at the same time as the 75/1.4, and both lenses were my first Summilux lenses. I was happy.
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
Me too, Raid. I had been using the 50/2 Apo Aspheric and the (older) 180/3.4 Apo Telyt for making images of our local symphony orchestra, and started using them wide open. Or only 1 stop down for DOF. I was blown away by the results, as were some of my viewers.
So now this 8-element replica is almost upon us. I hope (and think it likely) that we can use this wide open as well with satisfaction. The image in the restaurant which is in my Viewfinder article was shot wide open, and I was most happy with that.
Ed
So now this 8-element replica is almost upon us. I hope (and think it likely) that we can use this wide open as well with satisfaction. The image in the restaurant which is in my Viewfinder article was shot wide open, and I was most happy with that.
Ed
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Leica has always been about the..wide open shot..
Nikon...not so..
I found that out back in the day..
Nikon...not so..
I found that out back in the day..
raid
Dad Photographer
I would mostly use 8~11 with Nikon or Canon SLR lenses in the years when I was using SLRs.
zaurus
Member
on behalf of my friend - Paze Ng:
As mentioned above, I choose a roll of Rollei RPX400 and process it in HC110 B. for 6.15 minutes at 20c, with yellow filter
Let’s discuss the style of Summicron 35/2 replica.
The first impression is the clear and clean image under small aperture, as it maintains proper contrast of brightness (the hood is not used).
Small apertures, ranging from F8 to F11, is capable to capture both fore- and back-ground details clearly, in addition to the principal subject.
Some old lens that fail to handle contrast of lighting correctly and challenge photographers’ understanding of light.
There is no need to worry about this by using Summicron 35/2 replica which makes photo-taking an relaxing experience,
while it is also believed that Summicron 35/2 replica produces good quality pictures easily.
We can find the overall style of the replica’s productions is clear and bright.
With such a sharp contrast, performance of this lens is between modern and old, while its overall performance is closer to modern ones. Comparing with 7 Elements, the contrast is even higher.
Of course, you will also find soft atmospheric lighting moments, which I would leave to masters who prefer larger apertures.
From photographic films, I find incredible 3D quality of the lens, while its precise resolution, from centre to edge, is just right.
Therefore, the micro contrast function makes Summicron 35/2 replica more comfortable to be used than those modern lens. Transitions is more subtle than I can image.
Luckily, I got a leaded version that helps me to save those low-key details from high contrast, or it may turn all dark.
I will sum up my experience and share with you guys in the coming section.
1.
2.
3.
As mentioned above, I choose a roll of Rollei RPX400 and process it in HC110 B. for 6.15 minutes at 20c, with yellow filter
Let’s discuss the style of Summicron 35/2 replica.
The first impression is the clear and clean image under small aperture, as it maintains proper contrast of brightness (the hood is not used).
Small apertures, ranging from F8 to F11, is capable to capture both fore- and back-ground details clearly, in addition to the principal subject.
Some old lens that fail to handle contrast of lighting correctly and challenge photographers’ understanding of light.
There is no need to worry about this by using Summicron 35/2 replica which makes photo-taking an relaxing experience,
while it is also believed that Summicron 35/2 replica produces good quality pictures easily.
We can find the overall style of the replica’s productions is clear and bright.
With such a sharp contrast, performance of this lens is between modern and old, while its overall performance is closer to modern ones. Comparing with 7 Elements, the contrast is even higher.
Of course, you will also find soft atmospheric lighting moments, which I would leave to masters who prefer larger apertures.
From photographic films, I find incredible 3D quality of the lens, while its precise resolution, from centre to edge, is just right.
Therefore, the micro contrast function makes Summicron 35/2 replica more comfortable to be used than those modern lens. Transitions is more subtle than I can image.
Luckily, I got a leaded version that helps me to save those low-key details from high contrast, or it may turn all dark.
I will sum up my experience and share with you guys in the coming section.
1.
2.
3.
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