[New test photos released] Leica Summicron 35/2 Eight Element copy made in China

[KEVIN-XU 愛 forever]

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail ver

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail ver

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version (Black Paint)

Original Leica 8-element was mounted on Leica m7, and the replica 8-element was mounted on Leica MP. Same shutter speed setting for every comparison shoots.

Film: Kodak NEW Ektachrome E100
Two films have been developed in the same batch to keep this a fair test.


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

 

[KEVIN-XU 愛 forever]

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail ver

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail ver

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr


[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

[Film Test] original Leica 35/2 8-element VS. replica 35/2 8-element final retail version by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

 

[fuse01]

how to order?

 

[Deleted member 65559]

fuse01, orders for the first batch closed 3weeks ago. Orders for RFF members in N America have not yet been filled. Best idea would be to keep watching this thread for updates.

 

[kiemchacsu]

similar to the black and white batch;
the second photo is brighter than the first one.
but i am really impressed with how the replica can render the colors. in fact, i prefer the more saturated color of the second photo.
and more interestingly; the second photo shows that the lens can deal with the back light better, thanks to the new coating i guess.

 

[Emile de Leon]

Yeah..but the replica..

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Yeah..but the replica.. loses the shadows..in the doorway...under the metal roof...
And the upper wood beam above doorway...totally lost..
So not that impressed..
Esp in night shots..where you want the lower contrast..to bring out the shadows..
In B&W..

...maybe, but i'm not going to judge off a monitor. Looking forward to having it in hand and shooting film & printing before i judge. Results thus far look very promising.

 

[teddy]

Okay, I found this one very interesting and kind of tough... But the image that gave away my conclusion is the last batch! The Replica is the second one again! It all has to do with the contrast and highlight blooming against tile roof shadows! Theres more source light bloom with older lenses. There could also be something else at play, the MP and the M7 light meter or perhaps that the Replica just gathers a "touch" more light... Why!?! My guess is that it has been improved! Yes, it may be a replica, but the glass being new may gather more light being an improvement. Would this affect contrast? Well, they are both very similar in contrast, but the 1st image of all batches, just has a slight darker tone than the 2nd - which is the Replica... This is fun! Thanks Kevin! 😀

 

[eckhardf]

I'm surprised..

Where I had a consistent preference for the upper image in the Black and White sequence I don't have a consistent preference one way or the other for the colour sequence.

The lower colour images seem to be about a third to a half stop lighter on average and perhaps this is why they also seem slightly higher in contrast. The lower image colours also seem a little warmer in tone.

Very close and I won't attempt to guess which is the replica.

My largest preference is also the found in the last image in the sequence - the laundry hanging outside the building. I really love the bloom (or is it veiling flare??) around the roof in the upper image - great character in a lens! The colours in the clothes also seem richer in the top image. So naturally I hope the replica produced the top images.

I should note that having seen both pairs of images that I am not too concerned which lens produced which images - they really are close. I shoot mostly digital these days and scan film so it's fairly simple to adjust exposure, colour temps, contrast and saturation etc. in post to get a result you like.

The comparison is really interesting and I thank Kevin for all the effort he is putting into this project.

I'd be interested in seeing some digital comparisons as well - especially as that's how I will be using my new replica lens!

 

[Erik van Straten]

Yes, in this shot the differences are obvious.

I think that the original eight elements is now very popular because of the veiling glare that is caused by the now very old and simple coatings. People like this effect on their digital shots. That is why the old cine lenses -Angénieux and such- are also very popular nowadays.

Perhaps it is hard do do, but a coating on the replica like the coating on the original could make the replica very desirable for a lot of people.

Erik.

 

[retinax]

I'm surprised people here like flare from haze so much. It shouldn't be hard to fog any lens if you want more of that... or more reasonably, put a dirty filter on it. If you only want to lift the shadows, flashing the film would do that without the other effects of flare. I'd much rather have a cleanly imaging lens...
And please, people! The disappearance of an image element that is about middle gray, which happens to be a shadow, cannot be attributed to the lens. When we talk about "shadow detail" or some such, we mean the darkest parts of an image, not necessarily shadows in the picture, which can be pictured as dark or light as one chooses to expose them 😀. There clearly and unfortunately was changing light when the black and white test pictures ware made.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I'm surprised people here like flare from haze so much. It shouldn't be hard to fog any lens if you want more of that... or more reasonably, put a dirty filter on it. If you only want to up the shadows, flashing the film would do that without the other effects of flare. I'd much rather have a cleanly imaging lens...

I do not mean haze, wich ruins the whole image, but the old single layer coating. Nowadays all lenses are multicoated. A single layer coating however gives often a very pleasant effect.

The original 8 elements Summicron is now about 60 years old.

Erik.

 

[retinax]

I do not mean haze, wich ruins the whole image, but the old single layer coating. Nowadays all lenses are multicoated. A single layer coating however gives often a very pleasant effect.


Erik.

Well, this replica is single coated and Kevin himself said above that the original Summicron was likely slightly hazy. And it does look like slight haze. I agree it is slight enough it doesn't ruin the picture.

 

[raid]

I expected the replica to have higher contrast, and I chose single coated over multi coated.
The new coating is sufficient.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Well, this replica is single coated and Kevin himself said above that the original Summicron was likely slightly hazy. And it does look like slight haze. I agree it is slight enough it doesn't ruin the picture.

On old, uncoated lenses haze is desastrous, maybe not so much on coated lenses, but everything is possible.

The design of the eight elements is however sensible for flare, because eight elements is quite a lot in such a lens. The more elements, the more flare. The Summaron 35mm f/2.8 has only six elements, but is at full aperture only sharp in the middle. Not much flare, however.

Erik.

Leica M2, Summaron 35mm f/2.8 @ f/2.8, TriX/D76, AdoxMCC110.

 

[froyd]

The exposure difference seems quite significant in the first set of picures: the first image is quite dark in the shadow areas

whereas the second one reveals a lot more detail, e.g. the field next to the parking lot.

From the position of the cars, it looks like the images were taken almost simultaneously, so the light should not have changed much.

Do we attribute the exposure difference to the glass properties, the diaphragm, or the shutter?

 

[vincentbihler]

Scanning technique can also make some pictures brighter than the other when they are the exact same...

 

[chambrenoire]

As Kevin wrote, pictures were taken on two different cameras (M7 & MP) on slide film. Slide film is sensitive and has to be exposed correctly. Maybe either camera has slightly off shutter speeds and therefor it exposes differently?



Anyways, the replica looks great, can't wait to get it and shoot with it!

 

[raid]

I am content with what I have seen so far. The replica is an excellent lens. Once I get it, I will use it and also my Summicron, side by side.

 

[Highway 61]

In the late 1980's I used to own, and shoot with, an original 8-elements Summicron, Wetzlar made. It was crystal clear with no haze at all. At that time, it was not so old as what it would be today (I haven't it any longer so I cannot know if it developed haze over time eventually, or not).

The photos shot with it under overcast daylight situations all show some veiling effects due to natural flare, with a large round area of the center of the photos with significantly less contrast than the corners, in spite of the use of the IROOA lens hood. On some photos this is quite unwanted and, at the end of the day, not really nice.