Dralowid
Michael
Well, not exactly, I used to have a Contax I but the shutter forever jammed. Before I plunge into the Contax world, in search of I,II or maybe a starter Kiev of some description, could you point me in the direction of someone in the UK who does CLA work on Contaxes? Although I can do a simple Leica CLA, I think a Conatx may be beyond my eyesight and fingers...
Any links to Contax sites and info would be much appreciated as well as any wise words as to what to look for.
Michael
Any links to Contax sites and info would be much appreciated as well as any wise words as to what to look for.
Michael
john341
camera user
I would try
I would try
Oleg at OKvintagecameras.com for a quote. Oleg Khalyavin seems to have a handle on Kievs and may do a Contax..worth an email and its close to the UK-best of luck
I would try
Oleg at OKvintagecameras.com for a quote. Oleg Khalyavin seems to have a handle on Kievs and may do a Contax..worth an email and its close to the UK-best of luck
oftheherd
Veteran
I am not sure if you are saying you really don't have a Contax or are saying you don't hae a working one. If you have one and don't find anyone you like for repairing it, you might want to look at the Kiev Survival Site for help on repairs. It doesn't look impossible, not to say I don't dread the day I have to do it.
D.O'K.
Darren O'Keeffe.
For repair/CLA work I would give a high recommendation to Ed Troszka, who is a (the?) specialist Contax repairer in the UK:
Ed Troszka/Euro Photographic Services
150 Harrowgate Drive,
Birstall,
Leicester LE4 3GP.
tel:- 0116 2674247.
Regards,
D.
Ed Troszka/Euro Photographic Services
150 Harrowgate Drive,
Birstall,
Leicester LE4 3GP.
tel:- 0116 2674247.
Regards,
D.
Dralowid
Michael
I haven't got one at the moment. Having looked at the Kiev Survival Site I am inclined to have a go at getting an old Kiev off 'that auction site' and giving at CLA as required. If I like the 'feel' of the result I will graduate to a Contax.
Or would you say that gulf between Contax and Kiev is as wide as that as that between Leica and Fed?
Michael
Or would you say that gulf between Contax and Kiev is as wide as that as that between Leica and Fed?
Michael
ZeissFan
Veteran
The Contax II/III and the early Kiev models are nearly mechanically identical, because the Kiev was made with the Contax production equipment that was boxed and shipped to the Soviet Union as part of post-World War II reparations.
There are minor differences in the choice of materials and quality of construction, but they're mechanically identical. You can take a Kiev shutter assembly from a Contax or Kiev and put it into the other camera.
A noted Contax repairer (Henry Scherer) seems to believe this happens on a widespread basis, but it's not true. There are numerous Contax bodies with their original shutters. What is true is that if you did it, so what? You essentially have a Contax body with what you should consider to be a "second cousin" Contax shutter.
The postwar Contax IIa/IIIa is mechanically different from the prewar camera, and they can't share any parts. The Soviets never produced a knockoff of the Contax IIa/IIIa -- they didn't have the machinery to do that, and because the cameras didn't share any parts, they would have had to have two concurrent production lines, which wouldn't have made economic sense -- not even to a greedy Communist.
There are minor differences in the choice of materials and quality of construction, but they're mechanically identical. You can take a Kiev shutter assembly from a Contax or Kiev and put it into the other camera.
A noted Contax repairer (Henry Scherer) seems to believe this happens on a widespread basis, but it's not true. There are numerous Contax bodies with their original shutters. What is true is that if you did it, so what? You essentially have a Contax body with what you should consider to be a "second cousin" Contax shutter.
The postwar Contax IIa/IIIa is mechanically different from the prewar camera, and they can't share any parts. The Soviets never produced a knockoff of the Contax IIa/IIIa -- they didn't have the machinery to do that, and because the cameras didn't share any parts, they would have had to have two concurrent production lines, which wouldn't have made economic sense -- not even to a greedy Communist.
Dralowid
Michael
So Zeissfan, you are saying that the greedy communist camera will give me the equivalent experience that I would get from a svelte well fed West German version?
Michael
Michael
jmkelly
rangefinder user
You will perhaps pay less for a similar experience.
dee
Well-known
A properly prepared Kiev 2 / 2a / 3 / 3a would give you most of the pleasures of a Contax equivalent , at a reasonable cost .
Kiev 2 and 3 are becoming expensive to buy , a II a or III a is more reasonable .
Mike Haley in Ukraine can supply a Kiev fully fettled in the old Arsenal factory by ex-Kiev techs of a certain age ! [ with no import duties from USA for example ]
Check out '' www.cccp.alien-planet.net/index.htm ''
I am awaiting a Contax III restored by them .
Another idea would be a broken Contax II , which can be restored with a later Kiev shutter - with , I am told , increased reliability with Contax style - my next project . Best or worst of two worlds ?
You might also try a comparitively budget Kiev 4 a or 4 with meter .
I use a late Kiev 4m with new cell which I bought from Oleg . They have a poor press for finish and quality of construction , but mine works smoothly and quietly .
It would never be mistaken for a Contax though !
dee
Kiev 2 and 3 are becoming expensive to buy , a II a or III a is more reasonable .
Mike Haley in Ukraine can supply a Kiev fully fettled in the old Arsenal factory by ex-Kiev techs of a certain age ! [ with no import duties from USA for example ]
Check out '' www.cccp.alien-planet.net/index.htm ''
I am awaiting a Contax III restored by them .
Another idea would be a broken Contax II , which can be restored with a later Kiev shutter - with , I am told , increased reliability with Contax style - my next project . Best or worst of two worlds ?
You might also try a comparitively budget Kiev 4 a or 4 with meter .
I use a late Kiev 4m with new cell which I bought from Oleg . They have a poor press for finish and quality of construction , but mine works smoothly and quietly .
It would never be mistaken for a Contax though !
dee
ZeissFan
Veteran
Ha ha -- good one.
I've read that the earlier Kiev cameras had better quality control because the Germans engineers were still involved in the production.
If you handled a Kiev and a Contax II in the dark, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, except for the lower-quality covering of the Kiev.
If you want the Contax experience but don't have the cash (champagne on a beer budget), find a Kiev that works. And the plus is that you can use any Carl Zeiss lens with this camera (except for the 21mm Biogon).
Classic camera author Ivor Mantanle wrote in a magazine article several years ago that the Contax II had a somewhat high rejection rate on the factory line, which was one of the contributing factors to its high price.
When the Soviets began to make the Kiev, they set unreasonably high production quotas, which meant that nearly every camera that was produced would eventually be put up for sale, including those that would have failed German quality standards.
Once the Germans were no longer involved with production, quality control began to slip, but production quotas didn't shrink and in fact were raised each year. This doesn't mean that all Kievs were bad, but that a higher percentage of them should never have been released to the public.
I should search for the article so I can summarize it properly, although I think this is the gist of what it said, regarding production.
dee
Well-known
ZeissFan is correct - if buying a Kiev of any kind , it is essential that it has been properly serviced , not just checked over . If you buy a UK sourced Kiev 4 [ late models only ] which was originally imported by T.O.E , you will be sure of a camera which was checked over and re-engineered as required , and shoud be working still .
Look out for an English manual with the camera , which may indicate a UK import .
I have an as new Kiev 4a in UK box 1979 , which is exellent ... but it isn't a Contax !
Look out for an English manual with the camera , which may indicate a UK import .
I have an as new Kiev 4a in UK box 1979 , which is exellent ... but it isn't a Contax !
Mongo Park
Established
Contax sites - have a look at Henry Scherer's website at www.zeisscamera.com and at Stephen Gandy's classic camera profiles at www.cameraquest.com
Dralowid
Michael
Ah Ha! a £5 Kiev has arrived in the post. It has a meter on the top so I assume it is a Kiev IV of some descripition and will identify it later this evening.
I'm a bit taken aback by the 'feel' of the thing, as a Leica owner of many years I have got used to cameras fitting togheter properly, this thing looks like it was assembled during a power cut...amazingly it appears to work and the needle in the meter wanders purposfully around...who knows????
I'll try and use it, if it works it will take pictures and then it is up to me but I still feel the need to get my hands on the real deal in order to make a comparison.
(Should I be posting here or in the FSU forum?)
Michael
I'm a bit taken aback by the 'feel' of the thing, as a Leica owner of many years I have got used to cameras fitting togheter properly, this thing looks like it was assembled during a power cut...amazingly it appears to work and the needle in the meter wanders purposfully around...who knows????
I'll try and use it, if it works it will take pictures and then it is up to me but I still feel the need to get my hands on the real deal in order to make a comparison.
(Should I be posting here or in the FSU forum?)
Michael
David Murphy
Veteran
There are plenty of post war Zeiss Contax IIa, and IIIa's out there good shape for between $200-$300 (around 200 pounds), if you look a while and shop carefully - they are not rare cameras. You will also not regret owning one - they are simply superb to handle and use. They are in a league of their own, well above Kiev, well above prewar Contax (and I've owned and used them all). This is not big money compared to the cost of a thorough CLA with new curtains on a broken camera. Post-war Contax is similar to a post-war Leica in quality and performance, which is no surprise since they were in head-to-head competition at the time. The IIa/IIIa feels like a Leica M2 or M3 to me (somewhat), except of course for the finders which are superior on M Leica.
Now before I get my usual pummeling by Kiev fans, let me say that I appreciate Kiev for what it is, and there are certainly good examples if they've been well-serviced (the lenses are a bargain too). I own a Kiev 4 in fact as a backup to my Contax IIa and Nikon S.
Now before I get my usual pummeling by Kiev fans, let me say that I appreciate Kiev for what it is, and there are certainly good examples if they've been well-serviced (the lenses are a bargain too). I own a Kiev 4 in fact as a backup to my Contax IIa and Nikon S.
furcafe
Veteran
I will "pummel" you as a Contax II/III fan. 
I think the pre-WWII Contax models are actually more solid & better made than the post-WWII IIa & IIIa (also superior RF/VF), except for the nicer chrome finish & slightly easier to use shutter speed dial, & still better finished/constructed than the Kievs as well (even the early versions). Remember, it was the Contax II & III that forced Leica to step up their game & eventually produce the M3 & IIIg.
All are fine cameras, of course, & IIa/IIIas are easier to find in good condition. I just think the II/IIIs get a bad rap, based partly on certain web sites, etc. that make it sound as if they're delicate, unreliable, flowers when they were actually rugged professional tools routinely used in the toughest environments (e.g., D-day, Mt. Everest).
I think the pre-WWII Contax models are actually more solid & better made than the post-WWII IIa & IIIa (also superior RF/VF), except for the nicer chrome finish & slightly easier to use shutter speed dial, & still better finished/constructed than the Kievs as well (even the early versions). Remember, it was the Contax II & III that forced Leica to step up their game & eventually produce the M3 & IIIg.
All are fine cameras, of course, & IIa/IIIas are easier to find in good condition. I just think the II/IIIs get a bad rap, based partly on certain web sites, etc. that make it sound as if they're delicate, unreliable, flowers when they were actually rugged professional tools routinely used in the toughest environments (e.g., D-day, Mt. Everest).
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dee
Well-known
Heck guys let us not get into a Contax II / IIa / Kiev II / IV a debate !
If you prefer a Contax II or III , that's OK - I can't wait for mine to arrive - but my 51 Kiev II is a good CAMERA , needing no comparison , as is my very rough around the edges Kiev 4m - with a superb Helios .
If you prefer a Contax II or III , that's OK - I can't wait for mine to arrive - but my 51 Kiev II is a good CAMERA , needing no comparison , as is my very rough around the edges Kiev 4m - with a superb Helios .
Dralowid
Michael
So the short term plan is to use a Kiev 4 for a few weeks, pull it to pieces and understand how it works and generally see what's what.
Longer term will be to try a Contax IIa (since they seem more available) and get the postwar Zeiss experience.
Ultimate plan will be to get my hands on a Contax I to compare with my older Leicas. Whether the experience of dismantling a Kiev will help me to get a Contax I to work I don't know but it should help a bit...? Feds and Zorkis helped me learn my way around the insides of Leicas.
Michael
Longer term will be to try a Contax IIa (since they seem more available) and get the postwar Zeiss experience.
Ultimate plan will be to get my hands on a Contax I to compare with my older Leicas. Whether the experience of dismantling a Kiev will help me to get a Contax I to work I don't know but it should help a bit...? Feds and Zorkis helped me learn my way around the insides of Leicas.
Michael
outfitter
Well-known
The pre-war Contax metal shutter (which sort of wheezes) usually gives Leica users a start but it has many virtues so long as you remember that replacement of the silk shutter ribbons was a required part of regular maintenance and the world was sprinkled with Zeiss factor trained repairmen. Come to think of it, with the breakup of the Soviet Union the world is again sprinkled with a lot of guys who can repair the Contax/Kiev.
The reason the Contax II/III blew away the pre-war Leica (IMO) was the lenses. Advanced designs that permitted high speed in the day before lens coating (which Zeiss also invented). Add to that the impressive (even today) rangefinder/viewfinder and you can see why Leica lagged until the M3 blew every other RF away.
The best discussion of the differences between the Contax and Kiev is here:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm
Paradoxically a non-collector grade Contax II (eg with added flash sync or electric pencil engraving) is frequently cheaper than a good Kiev II or IIa!
The reason the Contax II/III blew away the pre-war Leica (IMO) was the lenses. Advanced designs that permitted high speed in the day before lens coating (which Zeiss also invented). Add to that the impressive (even today) rangefinder/viewfinder and you can see why Leica lagged until the M3 blew every other RF away.
The best discussion of the differences between the Contax and Kiev is here:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm
Paradoxically a non-collector grade Contax II (eg with added flash sync or electric pencil engraving) is frequently cheaper than a good Kiev II or IIa!
Dralowid
Michael
Well, first weekend and first film with my ‘faux’ Contax. No results yet but how did things work out when compared to a LTM Leica?
Well, film loading is no better or worse, fortunately I grew an extra hand to be able to load the Leica and it has come in good stead. And at least it is nice to be able to see what one is doing.
The viewfinder/rangefinder. Now that I have amputated a couple of fingers from my right hand in order to clear the rangefinder window I think the viewfinder/rangefinder is excellent and gives one a sense of accuracy sometimes absent in a Leica II or III. The focussing wheel is a nice touch and again ‘implies’ accuracy.
I dislike the way one sets shutter speeds, not the ‘wind on first’ thing but the ergonomics and visibility of the dial itself. I don’t like(nor do I trust) the meter either but am not really used to one.
I’m frightened by the shutter, to me it goes the wrong way and sounds like a venetian blind being dropped down the back of a piano. OK, so I’m going to pull the thing to bits and hopefully it will emerge quieter/smoother. Kievs seem ideally suited to home mechanics...
So, I’m happy to persevere and start looking for a meterless Contax of some description and I look forward to the chance of having a go with some of the Zeiss lenses available (which seem a whole lot cheaper than the Leitz alternatives).
I can then sell the Kiev for an enormous profit (?!?)
Michael
Well, film loading is no better or worse, fortunately I grew an extra hand to be able to load the Leica and it has come in good stead. And at least it is nice to be able to see what one is doing.
The viewfinder/rangefinder. Now that I have amputated a couple of fingers from my right hand in order to clear the rangefinder window I think the viewfinder/rangefinder is excellent and gives one a sense of accuracy sometimes absent in a Leica II or III. The focussing wheel is a nice touch and again ‘implies’ accuracy.
I dislike the way one sets shutter speeds, not the ‘wind on first’ thing but the ergonomics and visibility of the dial itself. I don’t like(nor do I trust) the meter either but am not really used to one.
I’m frightened by the shutter, to me it goes the wrong way and sounds like a venetian blind being dropped down the back of a piano. OK, so I’m going to pull the thing to bits and hopefully it will emerge quieter/smoother. Kievs seem ideally suited to home mechanics...
So, I’m happy to persevere and start looking for a meterless Contax of some description and I look forward to the chance of having a go with some of the Zeiss lenses available (which seem a whole lot cheaper than the Leitz alternatives).
I can then sell the Kiev for an enormous profit (?!?)
Michael