Tonkatsu-Dog
Established
All,
I want to share my experience as a newbie to Leica over last few months.
I had been shooting Nikon DSLR's for 6-7 years. Starting with a D60 and then moving via a D7000 to D800. I was quite heavily invested in Nikon FX lenses imagining me sticking with Nikon for the duration so to speak.... I
In October I got a secondhand M240 with a 50 summilux. Second hand stores here in Tokyo are great I don't ever think I buy a new camera or lens ever again ( its like buying a new car - as soon as you drive out of the car dealer you loose 20% of the value).
My impressions so far are good - I enjoy the Leica and the RF experience a lot. Pictures can look great when you nail it. I am still struggling a bit with post processing of indoor shoots. Also I do like the small compactness of the system.
But its so expensive - my wife forced me to choose between a new car or a Leica (I still drive an old Nissan). I sold all Nikon gear of in January after being comfortable with the Leica so there is no turning back
Over the next couple of months I want to challenge myself taking more portraits and using existing light better. (Although my flickr is a bit misleading - I already take portraits of friends and family, only I don't post them online)
In terms of improvements on the Leica M? I have a few points i'd like to see improved in the next version. None are fatal or deal breaking but more incremental..
- Shave 100-150g of the weight. its still light compared to my old D800 but I like the weight of the M9 better.
- Better white balance, I have the latest firmware but I think it still struggles in artificial light.
- Wake up time shouldn't be longer than half a second like on the D800. Now its 1-2 seconds
- Menue system can be a bit faster and more responsive, zooming in on a picture on the screen takes time
- A bit cheaper Sony mirrorless cameras with leica glass is a serious competitor. Will ppl pay 3-4 times the price of a Sony only for the RF function and a brass body in the future?
Despite this I am quite happy with it and have no plans to get into a DSLR anytime soon again.
Attaching link to my flickr so you can see some of my stuff.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/h0lidays1/
Please leave comments thoughts etc.. interesting to hear what ppl have to say of their experiences on moving into RF cameras, next steps of Leica and comments on the photos of course.
Thanks,
Toby
I want to share my experience as a newbie to Leica over last few months.
I had been shooting Nikon DSLR's for 6-7 years. Starting with a D60 and then moving via a D7000 to D800. I was quite heavily invested in Nikon FX lenses imagining me sticking with Nikon for the duration so to speak.... I
In October I got a secondhand M240 with a 50 summilux. Second hand stores here in Tokyo are great I don't ever think I buy a new camera or lens ever again ( its like buying a new car - as soon as you drive out of the car dealer you loose 20% of the value).
My impressions so far are good - I enjoy the Leica and the RF experience a lot. Pictures can look great when you nail it. I am still struggling a bit with post processing of indoor shoots. Also I do like the small compactness of the system.
But its so expensive - my wife forced me to choose between a new car or a Leica (I still drive an old Nissan). I sold all Nikon gear of in January after being comfortable with the Leica so there is no turning back
Over the next couple of months I want to challenge myself taking more portraits and using existing light better. (Although my flickr is a bit misleading - I already take portraits of friends and family, only I don't post them online)
In terms of improvements on the Leica M? I have a few points i'd like to see improved in the next version. None are fatal or deal breaking but more incremental..
- Shave 100-150g of the weight. its still light compared to my old D800 but I like the weight of the M9 better.
- Better white balance, I have the latest firmware but I think it still struggles in artificial light.
- Wake up time shouldn't be longer than half a second like on the D800. Now its 1-2 seconds
- Menue system can be a bit faster and more responsive, zooming in on a picture on the screen takes time
- A bit cheaper Sony mirrorless cameras with leica glass is a serious competitor. Will ppl pay 3-4 times the price of a Sony only for the RF function and a brass body in the future?
Despite this I am quite happy with it and have no plans to get into a DSLR anytime soon again.
Attaching link to my flickr so you can see some of my stuff.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/h0lidays1/
Please leave comments thoughts etc.. interesting to hear what ppl have to say of their experiences on moving into RF cameras, next steps of Leica and comments on the photos of course.
Thanks,
Toby
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
How did you feel about overall resolving power versus the D800? Were many Nikon SLR lenses capable of doing a meaningful job with 36mp?
Dante
Dante
Hsg
who dares wins
Probably the biggest change from going to Leica M from a DSLR is that you cannot use zoom lenses on a Leica... Whenever you feel the need for a focal range, you must buy a new Leica lens. And of course with digital, changing lens on the go not only brings dust to the sensor but also it can be stressful, when you're dealing with expensive glass.
I guess, what I'm saying is if you're used to a zoom lens on a DSLR then get a quality mirrorless or a DSLR with a zoom as a second body so that you don't fall into the trap of buying a new lens every time you feel the desire to use a particular focal length.
I guess, what I'm saying is if you're used to a zoom lens on a DSLR then get a quality mirrorless or a DSLR with a zoom as a second body so that you don't fall into the trap of buying a new lens every time you feel the desire to use a particular focal length.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Or buy a lens that matches your vision. I don't need all the F/L only the ones that work with the way I see.
I think most people that shoot Leica M have that figured out.
I think most people that shoot Leica M have that figured out.
Tonkatsu-Dog
Established
I found the 36mp of the D800 as excessive for my needs - all that did was fill up my hard drive. 24mp is a bit closer to my needs, considering cropping and future 4K tv's. I usually watch my photos on a 46 inch HD TV and as long as thats ok even with the next generation HD I am fine.
I had some good Nikon lenses and they looked great with the D800 (I loved the Nikkor 24-70 2.8) but I wasn't pixel peeping so not sure if I ever used the full 36mp. I hear you need tripod, timed release etc for that. t
In terms of forgoing zooms, that was never an issue to me. I used primes (even manual focus ones) a lot throughout my DSLR days. And as pointed out getting into RF generally means giving up zooms or tele lenses so that was very much part of the equation from day one.
I have a 35mm and a 50mm now. I might get a 90 at some point for portraits with a bit more compression but not any time soon due to the cost.
I still keep my Ricoh GR as a point and shoot - it fits in my pocket and only needs one hand to operate which is a huge plus sometimes.
Another thing with a RF I heard about but didn't really understand until using one is the view trough the rangefinder. I really like the overview it gives even outside the frame. I used my mum's dslr a while ago and it felt like looking trough a toilet roll!
In terms of color rendition from RAW on the Nikon set up, i'd say it was accurate and correct. A bit like Japanese cars, it got the job done but with little excitement involved. The colours out of a leica set up definitively has more personality to which I like a lot. The Ricoh colours are a bit washed out and need more work...
I had some good Nikon lenses and they looked great with the D800 (I loved the Nikkor 24-70 2.8) but I wasn't pixel peeping so not sure if I ever used the full 36mp. I hear you need tripod, timed release etc for that. t
In terms of forgoing zooms, that was never an issue to me. I used primes (even manual focus ones) a lot throughout my DSLR days. And as pointed out getting into RF generally means giving up zooms or tele lenses so that was very much part of the equation from day one.
I have a 35mm and a 50mm now. I might get a 90 at some point for portraits with a bit more compression but not any time soon due to the cost.
I still keep my Ricoh GR as a point and shoot - it fits in my pocket and only needs one hand to operate which is a huge plus sometimes.
Another thing with a RF I heard about but didn't really understand until using one is the view trough the rangefinder. I really like the overview it gives even outside the frame. I used my mum's dslr a while ago and it felt like looking trough a toilet roll!
In terms of color rendition from RAW on the Nikon set up, i'd say it was accurate and correct. A bit like Japanese cars, it got the job done but with little excitement involved. The colours out of a leica set up definitively has more personality to which I like a lot. The Ricoh colours are a bit washed out and need more work...
Ben Z
Veteran
Tonkatsu-Dog
Established
How do you find that in terms of practicality?
furcafe
Veteran
I've found that a fast SD card seems to make a noticeable improvement on these points.
KingMixer
Member
I'm making the leap to the Leica M myself, too – from having only owned Panasonic Gh2, Gx7, Gh4 cameras. Should be here tomorrow!
Your flickr stuff is good btw
Your flickr stuff is good btw
Ben Z
Veteran
I find it more practical than carrying a separate dslr with zoom. Drawbacks are 1)very slow return to live view (ie, long blackout) after the shot, and 2) lack of IS/VR means up to 3 stops disadvantage in handholding. For me it's 0 stops at first but after an hour or so my neck and shoulders get tired and then it's up to that 3 stop advantage
segedi
RFicianado
I moved from Canon DSLR to Leica M7 to Leica M240 and a Ricoh GR. Picked up a Nikon D750 and since it has a 24 megapixel sensor, like the M240, can offer some comparison. There is no comparison between the D750 with any 50mm lens I've tried (haven't used the Sigma Art lens though) and the M240 and 50mm Summilux. The Leica combo is incredibly sharp. Maybe it's due to the lack of an AA filter. Maybe it's my Nikon lenses and the AA filter over the sensor, but pixel peeping or prints at 12x18" show the Leica to be the winner. Except for in the wallet.
I've recently considered selling my M240 and just sticking with the M7, but everytime I uee the thing it convinces me otherwise. It's stunning.
I've recently considered selling my M240 and just sticking with the M7, but everytime I uee the thing it convinces me otherwise. It's stunning.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
I bought a well-loved but beautiful M 240 from an RFF member recently, and coming from a Canon 5DmkII, I thought I could offer my own 2 cents.
I agree with Tonkatsu-Dog's "points of improvement" ... there are things about the ergonomics of the M 240 that I find counter-intuitive. And I've also noticed the M 240's issues with white balance. Even with the manual WB setting, I still find the camera can get colours a bit 'off' -- especially with artificial lighting.
The Canon dSLR design utilizes more shortcuts, more direct functionality. This makes using any Canon dSLR body pretty intuitive. With the M 240, I find there's just a few too many button presses or scroll-wheelings to get to the function that I need on the Leica.
Turn-on times, and read/write times are directly related to the brand / speed of the SDHC card, so that's an easy fix. I bought a Lexar Professional 32GB U-3 150mb/second card off Amazon, and I've been pretty happy. Still, the turn-on time for my Canon dSLR is instantaneous. In fact, with Canon it was never even a thought. But the Leica always seems to need a second or two to warm up. On the other hand, I've never been troubled by read/write times on the Leica. The high-speed card seems to really help. For comparison I tried a Class 8 Panasonic card I had lying around, and the difference was significant.
Despite all these complaints, there's lots of things I like about the M 240.
My Canon dSLR, for all its bells, whistles, and firepower, has never given me out-of-camera shots like the M 240.
Even in the past few days, shooting relatively mundane scenes, I have been completely floored by the image quality of the M 240. When the Leica nails it, it REALLY nails it.
I've been using a mix of Leica and Zeiss lenses, and I'm always astounded at the quality of the .DNG files. Even the JPEG's are wonderful, as long as the white balance is working properly.
Which brings me to another bone-of-contention: the 6-bit coding system. Some of my Leica glass is coded, some is not. None of my Zeiss glass is coded, of course. This necessitates going into the menu system to find the appropriate lens. To me this is a major annoyance. With my Canon dSLR, I never had to worry about 'coding'. Now, I find myself switching between 'AUTO' and 'MANUAL' lens detection -- and sometimes I forget to change settings between lenses ... meaning that the camera is not using the correct algorithm to correct for light fall-off, etc.
For a technically-advanced company such as Leica, I'm surprised that they didn't come up with a better system. And if you want to get your lenses coded by Leica, it costs more than 110 Euros per lens, and weeks of waiting.
To me, the M 240 is like a difficult girlfriend. She's infuriating, but she's so special that you can't help but put up with her idiosyncrasies.
I agree with Tonkatsu-Dog's "points of improvement" ... there are things about the ergonomics of the M 240 that I find counter-intuitive. And I've also noticed the M 240's issues with white balance. Even with the manual WB setting, I still find the camera can get colours a bit 'off' -- especially with artificial lighting.
The Canon dSLR design utilizes more shortcuts, more direct functionality. This makes using any Canon dSLR body pretty intuitive. With the M 240, I find there's just a few too many button presses or scroll-wheelings to get to the function that I need on the Leica.
Turn-on times, and read/write times are directly related to the brand / speed of the SDHC card, so that's an easy fix. I bought a Lexar Professional 32GB U-3 150mb/second card off Amazon, and I've been pretty happy. Still, the turn-on time for my Canon dSLR is instantaneous. In fact, with Canon it was never even a thought. But the Leica always seems to need a second or two to warm up. On the other hand, I've never been troubled by read/write times on the Leica. The high-speed card seems to really help. For comparison I tried a Class 8 Panasonic card I had lying around, and the difference was significant.
Despite all these complaints, there's lots of things I like about the M 240.
My Canon dSLR, for all its bells, whistles, and firepower, has never given me out-of-camera shots like the M 240.
Even in the past few days, shooting relatively mundane scenes, I have been completely floored by the image quality of the M 240. When the Leica nails it, it REALLY nails it.
I've been using a mix of Leica and Zeiss lenses, and I'm always astounded at the quality of the .DNG files. Even the JPEG's are wonderful, as long as the white balance is working properly.
Which brings me to another bone-of-contention: the 6-bit coding system. Some of my Leica glass is coded, some is not. None of my Zeiss glass is coded, of course. This necessitates going into the menu system to find the appropriate lens. To me this is a major annoyance. With my Canon dSLR, I never had to worry about 'coding'. Now, I find myself switching between 'AUTO' and 'MANUAL' lens detection -- and sometimes I forget to change settings between lenses ... meaning that the camera is not using the correct algorithm to correct for light fall-off, etc.
For a technically-advanced company such as Leica, I'm surprised that they didn't come up with a better system. And if you want to get your lenses coded by Leica, it costs more than 110 Euros per lens, and weeks of waiting.
To me, the M 240 is like a difficult girlfriend. She's infuriating, but she's so special that you can't help but put up with her idiosyncrasies.
bushwick1234
Well-known
IMHO with a Leica M240 and a 50 Summilux how can you NOT be happy? The lens is at B&H US$ 3,745 plus Sales Taxes 8.875% and the Leica M240 US$ 6,500 plus Sales Taxes 8.875% (web 4/3/15).
And: Pictures always look ok when you nail it, don't they?
And: Pictures always look ok when you nail it, don't they?
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
^ It's true, when you nail it, you nail it. But what I meant was the "look" that the M 240 gives. There's something special about the 24MP sensor in the M 240 -- it has a certain radiance that I can't duplicate with my Canon dSLR.
This is an image I took yesterday of my daughter. No post-processing, just JPEG conversion in ACR. I have to apologize for the crappy quality of the JPEG (link from Flickr) but you can see the wonderful gradations in the light ... really impressive.
Slope by ✾ Bobby Dean ✾, on Flickr
This is an image I took yesterday of my daughter. No post-processing, just JPEG conversion in ACR. I have to apologize for the crappy quality of the JPEG (link from Flickr) but you can see the wonderful gradations in the light ... really impressive.
Slope by ✾ Bobby Dean ✾, on FlickrTonkatsu-Dog
Established
Thanks - let us know your first impressions! Focusing took a while to get used to and I am still figuring out some things in lightroom with the raw files.
Tonkatsu-Dog
Established
Actually this never bothers me that much! I guess once I am shooting all I occasionally do is change the iso. Maybe the story is different if using live view or electronic view finder a lot? With the Nikon I found myself spending time figuring how to switch between different autofocus modes and exposure metering modes etc. Maybe you are right that the menu system on the M isn't as straightforward as on Canon but my point is that I don't have a reason to scrolling trough menus as much now!
Nice picture you posted - a good example of what you explained on the 'look'!
Segedi - agree with you that its a winner expect for the wallet!
Tonkatsu-Dog
Established
IMHO with a Leica M240 and a 50 Summilux how can you NOT be happy? The lens is at B&H US$ 3,745 plus Sales Taxes 8.875% and the Leica M240 US$ 6,500 plus Sales Taxes 8.875% (web 4/3/15).
And: Pictures always look ok when you nail it, don't they?
I think you answered that question yourself when adding the price!
I would be a lot happier at a third of that cost!