New to photography and need some direction/camera advice...

[ozreth]

I've been a fan of photography for many years, although from a distance. I follow many photographers online and purchase photo books. However, I didn't start actually taking pictures until a few months ago when an Olympus Stylus Epic sort of fell into my hands. I went and read a lot about the camera and found that it was actually a very capable point and shoot and I was shocked by many of the photos I saw people taking with it.

So I've been shooting with this thing for a few months now and I'm a bit discouraged. Now, I know I'm new and this skill will take a long time to build up, but in all of this time I've got maybe 3 or 4 shots that I really liked. The rest were either a bit blurry, overexposed or just boring. I find that I'm still taking better pictures with my iPhone 6. For what it's worth, I'm mostly taking pictures of neighborhood scenery (old homes, cars, storefronts, trees etc) and portraits. Maybe the stylus epic is just not a good fit for this type of photography?

I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I want to keep taking pictures but I'm wondering if I should try some other cameras to become more well rounded and get a better experience? I like that this point and shoot is automatic as I feel it lets me focus on simply going out and shooting, but I wonder if I'd have more fun with some controls? And while I like the look of film, I find I'm spending a lot of money for film, processing and scanning when most of my pictures are crap. Should I go digital for awhile before I get a grip on taking pictures? I'm not necessarily for or against either format and see the benefits of both.

So I'm considering...

1) Just stick with this little Stylus Epic and figure it out.
2) Try a different film point and shoot
3) Try a full sized film camera with more manual options.
4) Try a digital compact camera (I don't drive in my town and am always walking/biking so small is nice)
5) Try a full sized digital camera.

As you can see that seems to be pretty much the whole range. I know there are not right or wrong answers when it comes to taking pictures but I'm open to thoughts and suggestions simply to get my thoughts rolling. Also, if anybody suggests cameras try and keep a price range of around $200 or less in mind. Thanks!

 

[Huss]

#3
You already have an excellent auto everything digital camera - your iphone - so go with something very different. Pick up a mechanical manual 35mm SLR. You will have full control (and if it does not have a light meter there are lots of metering apps on your phone), and your framing and focus will be much more precise than the Stylus.

I actually also have a Stylus Epic and I dusted it off to use at an Oktoberfest party last year. I thought it would be great as it is small, auto everything and would not matter if it got damaged if things got rowdy. But I found it very frustrating as often it would not take a shot when I wanted to (decided whatever it thought it was focussing on was not in focus etc), and some of the shots came back blurry for whatever reason. It reminded me why I stopped using it all those years ago!

My Stylus next to my Mamiya (having fun w the size difference)

There are so many great film SLRs out there, for little money. From that batch I use Nikon FM2, Nikon FE2, Nikkormat Ft2 (I just bought one for $15!), Minolta SRT series etc etc. Olympus, Pentax also are a great option.

 

[jsrockit]

Should I go digital for awhile before I get a grip on taking pictures? I'm not necessarily for or against either format and see the benefits of both.

You can come to terms with learning how to make photos with either film or digital. Learning what shutter speeds and apertures are and how they affect a photo is the best thing to do first no matter what you choose.

So I'm considering...

1) Just stick with this little Stylus Epic and figure it out.
2) Try a different film point and shoot
3) Try a full sized film camera with more manual options.
4) Try a digital compact camera (I don't drive in my town and am always walking/biking so small is nice)
5) Try a full sized digital camera.

As you can see that seems to be pretty much the whole range. I know there are not right or wrong answers when it comes to taking pictures but I'm open to thoughts and suggestions simply to get my thoughts rolling. Also, if anybody suggests cameras try and keep a price range of around $200 or less in mind. Thanks!

Honestly, the Stylus is ok, but you might not know when it'll work right and when it won't. I think you should look at a Nikon F3 and a 50mm lens for about $200.

 

[kuzano]

The Pentax K1000 was the penultimate student SLR camera in the 70's. Simple, Robust, designed for manual control. Excellent manual control function, but also an internal meter so one could set the basic exposure triad and also exposure shift manually.

Tens of thousands of students used K1000's in photography schools and classes. Similar camera's were the Canon AE-1's, Minolta X-370's and Olympus OM's.

The K1000 comes to mind because the Pentax K mount lenses were excellent and available in many prime and zoom focal length. The camera also uses a currently available silver oxide battery for the meter. If the meter is not active, the camera is still totally functional with a hand held meter and transpose settings to the camera.

I know what you mean about the Epic. I think the epic came in a number of focal length lenses and zoom ranges and it's hard to synch yourself to the Epic, unless you have just the right one. It had a good rep, but many people found them frustrating.

The K1000 is readily available today, is fully usable today, and can still be serviced if need be. Many grew into photography on the K1000 and those others I mentioned. However the K1000 was the most basic learning tool for photography I ever ran into.

NO COMPUTER based technology. Even the meter is analog, and a K1000 is often better used fully manual without the meter for learning sake.

I've had one or more K1000's in my gear closet or my bag since the early 70's. There's been a K1000 in the back seat of my car for the last five years, with a 50mm f2 lens on it. All the pentax K mount lenses fit on it and function properly although later K mount lenses have more features that the 1000 does not utilize. In that case a later autofocus Pentax body may be in order and you can increase your feature set by moving up the model line.

In fact, todays best Pentax Digital Camera's can still use those old K mount lenses within the lenses capabilities.

Pentax K1000.... get em from KEH, or on eBay. Shop carefully, but you should actually be able to find many working K1000's (or the others) in good condition and as excellent photography learning tools to give you images up to any standards.

Many junior colleges still offer film study and classes. I teach community ed classes, and the JC where I teach has three CIS courses for film photography on the schedule every term... and very well attended every term.

 

[ozreth]

The Pentax K1000 was the penultimate student SLR camera in the 70's. Simple, Robust, designed for manual control. Excellent manual control function, but also an internal meter so one could set the basic exposure triad and also exposure shift manually.

Tens of thousands of students used K1000's in photography schools and classes. Similar camera's were the Canon AE-1's, Minolta X-370's and Olympus OM's.

Thanks for all of the information and advice. I'm looking at the above cameras and it looks like they can all be had for ~$100-150. For the X370 is there much of a difference between the regular and the 's' version, other than the color?

 

[ozreth]

snip

Sound advice, and sort of what I'm leaning towards, although I'm afraid to continue spending money on the film process if I don't get much better. I suppose if I go this route I should really invest in a scanner.

 

[Huss]

Thanks for all of the information and advice. I'm looking at the above cameras and it looks like they can all be had for ~$100-150. For the X370 is there much of a difference between the regular and the 's' version, other than the color?

I would skip the x370/x300 etc. I've had a couple and they failed - they are very computer oriented and once those bits go...

Stick with a more manual mechanical camera like the Pentax K1000, Nikon Fm series, Minolta SRT series.

 

[ozreth]

I would skip the x370/x300 etc. I've had a couple and they failed - they are very computer oriented and once those bits go...

Stick with a more manual mechanical camera like the Pentax K1000, Nikon Fm series, Minolta SRT series.

I just read this review of the k1000 and it sounds like just what I need. I like the look of it as well. As I'm browsing these should I be looking for them with any specific kind of lens? Did they come with one in box?

http://istillshootfilm.org/post/113167676510/pentax-k1000-review

 

[Huss]

Sound advice, and sort of what I'm leaning towards, although I'm afraid to continue spending money on the film process if I don't get much better. I suppose if I go this route I should really invest in a scanner.

Any one of the mentioned cameras will make you much more confident in your framing, knowing what will be in focus (cuz you'll see before you take the pic!), knowing that the shutter speed you used will freeze action etc. You will get better.
But... before you take a shot, ask yourself why? What is it that makes it interesting? A sharp photo of something boring is not going to be much fun.
Look at the shots that you like that you took with your phone, and figure out why you like them.

 

[Mike Fish]

Pentax K 1000 cheap

Pentax K 1000 cheap

I'm going to share a big secret. You can find the Pentax K-1000 a lot cheaper on Goodwill's auction site.

shopgoodwill DOT com

I picked up a K-1000 with normal lens, a 70-210 zoom, vivitar flash, and bag for $26 + shipping. That was an unusually good deal, but you can almost always find the camera and normal lens there for less than $50.

Here's one - ending today Fri 2/19 at 4:30 PT - Asahi Pentax K1000 Film Camera w 3 Lenses & Flash (27691793) currently priced at $41, and I'd be surprised if it goes for more than $65. That's the K1000, a 28mm lens, a 50mm, a 75-200 zoom, and a Vivitar 2600 flash.

Caveat: There is no guarantee about functionality. But I've had good luck.

YMMV

-mike

 

[mfogiel]

What you need is something that will teach you to see photographically. As a paradox, the best tool available is an Ipad at the beginning - keep it at an arm's length, or buy a tripod and a support and use it as a field camera. This will give you an idea about what is it that you are about to do when you press the button. Next useful step wold be a 6x6 TLR camera, but this presupposes some skill in exposing, developing and scanning. Above all, in my opinion, a film camera nowadays is justified only if you like B&W over colour. There is a function that can turn your Ipad to B&W, so you can begin this way to see how you feel about it. Photography can be a great passion, and there are many ways of doing it. I prefer the process and the look of B&W film, but that's just me. Once you decide you would like to give photography a serious try, you should read this:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/05/a-leica-year.html.
As to the 200$ limit - there are people who take great photos with a Holga worth 30USD and people like me, who have far too many cameras and lenses - in the end most of the time it is your imagination that is the limiting factor, not the camera.

 

[doolittle]

I would be looking at a digital camera with physical controls for aperture and shutter speed. Lots of older dSLR available now sub $200. Paired with a 50mm prime it could still be reasonably light and portable. The instant feedback really helps rapid learning, especially if you are committed enough not to switch on full auto.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Just in case.

If you (or someone) have money for this:

I ... purchase photo books...
My iPhone 6.
I'm spending a lot of money for film, processing and scanning....

Why it has to be like this?

....anybody suggests cameras try and keep a price range of around $200 or less in mind.

But, my deep respect for you to keep on trying it on film.

Bad news - your Epic Stylus might have failure which leads to bad exposures.
Good news, if you want to improve technical aspect of film based photography - 200$ is plenty. We (as family) used film EOS Canon Rebel 2000 camera with kit zoom lens for years. AF, AE - perfect. And it still works. It is small SLR, light (plastic) and lens is light as well.

My wife used this kit to take family portraits. I was told yesterday what still available grip for this camera will allow to use cheap AA batteries, instead of more expensive one for in-camera (they lasts for few months, up to one year).

For trees, cars and houses.

IMHO, iPhone with apps is great.
If you want more control and ergonomics you could get new digital PS for $200 with Av, Tv and M modes.
But most of the digital cameras if not all of them are missing creativity apps of the iPhone. It is much less hassle with the iPhone to get final picture on the spot, instead of bringing files on computer and then...

Have you tried to build your own pinhole camera and use Holga/Diana cameras? It is completely opposite from perfect exposure, but gives new look for trees, cars and houses.
You could also get manual only SLR, RF, scale camera and use free app for exposure metering on iPhone to determine exposure on the spot. Plenty of nice and different film cameras to choose from 20 to 200 $.

Cheers, Ko.

 

[it'sawhat?]

If you decide film is what you want I would suggest in pentax either the km or mx over the k1000 simply put more camera for the same or less money. Actually I'd look more at some of the plasticy nikons like the n60 or n8008 very capable bodies that are dirt cheap and with a decent zoom in the 35-70 range a good starter camera for well under $200. and with the zoom seeing if most of the shots you like are at either end or the middle helps pick which prime to start with later.

 

[marcr1230]

I'd separate this question into multiple parts

1) Vision - photographic vision is not based on your camera, if you like the results from you iPhone, your vision and framing and composition is fine
2) Gear - is the gear suitable for your vision, and is it functioning properly - i.e. stop action photography and night sky shots and portraits all work better with specific setups - is the hardware you have correct for the task, and is it working correctly (lens could be bad etc) and do you know how to operate the gear correctly

once you examine that - there are plenty of solutions available, like the K1000 as mentioned. it won't give you better vision.

costs and results - I develop my own B&W and scan it or print it - cost is cheap although I haven't printed in a while. I was happy when I got 2 good keepers from a roll of 36

edit brutally and without mercy - everyone will think you are a great photographer and only you need to know you threw out 98% of the product first

practice, practice, practice

 

[KM-25]

You can come to terms with learning how to make photos with either film or digital. Learning what shutter speeds and apertures are and how they affect a photo is the best thing to do first no matter what you choose.

Honestly, the Stylus is ok, but you might not know when it'll work right and when it won't. I think you should look at a Nikon F3 and a 50mm lens for about $200.

You can get great photos from a Stylus, I have back in the day, had magazine covers run from it. But in order to do that, you have to know what the true limits of the camera are and you learn that best on a camera you have greater control over.

I think the suggestion of the Nikon F3 and a 50 is a great one, simply one of the best cameras ever made and it has been in the hands of many great photographers who in turn, produced some of the more memorable images of our times with it. It's solid but not a hassle to tote around, has a very good meter and is easy to use. It is also part of what now has to be the most prolific and enormous camera system made in any format, so it is easy to expand with it. You can find a decent one with a 50mm 1.8 or 1.4 AI-S lens for $200 like stated above.

And if you love it, you can add on cameras and lenses to your heart's content, digital and film. I have one and I would take the F3 over a K1000 any day of the week, the system is just peerless.

 

[rhl-oregon]

Since this is a good point in the thread to reinforce earlier recommendations, I wish to back up what John (jsrockit) and Marek (Mfogiel) have written.

Here's another film/digital consideration:
you *can* get a fine SLR film kit for $200, as recommended with the K1000 or Nikon FM/FE/F3 + a fast 50mm, but costs of film, developing, scanning, etc. must be considered as well. You say want to shoot more AND shoot more keepers! but there is a not inexpensive learning curve with film. So is $200 realistic, even for one year of assiduous practice and refinement with a BW film kit? I don't think so, at $12-20 per roll developed/scanned (unless you roll and soup your own, and spend hundreds for a good scanner).

It is possible, alternatively, to stay close to $200 with a digital kit--even an interchangeable-lens starter kit. There are for instance Lumix GF1 bodies (12mp) for as little as $75, and GX1 bodies as low as $100, and a 14-45 or 14-42 lens (28-85/90mm equivalent) for $150 on the Bay. You can shoot and learn to heart's content close to budget, then add film gear as your skill and confidence grow.

Nevertheless, follow your heart! but don't cheap out OR under-budget in doing so.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

You asked if you should "Just stick with this little Stylus Epic and figure it out." The camera has a couple of controls that might be causing some or part of your troubles.

Well, I see a lot of people are telling you how to spend your money but I won't because I haven't seen any of your photo's and so can't comment. But I can ask some question...

1, Have you got a manual with the camera and have you read it? I know it sounds rude but a lot of people don't read the manual or haven't got one or have skimmed through it once.

2, Really I'd like to see the photo's that are blurry and so on. Do you have a web site? If so could you put them on it, or a few of them. You see there's reasons for blurry and they can vary.

3, What film are you using? Some of us change the film depending on the subject. And how are you getting it developed etc?

4, Have you asked a camera repairer to check the camera? It sound like it's second-hand and that introduces some questions.

5, Are you really convinced a small digital would work as well? I find them a pita to squeeze performance from.

6, Do you understand how the focus lock works? And the metering?

7, Would you really like to master the little Olympus (an excellent camera) or start all over again with another camera and make the same mistakes, perhaps. Sorry that sounds rude but it's feasible.

BTW, about putting pictures up for us to look at, try smugmug. I won't give you a code to quote to get me some commission but will recommend it as simple and straight forward. There's others and you'll be told how to spend you money on them too.

I like your description of photo's as boring. It's a good start but the camera won't change it. Nor will spending a lot of money. Perhaps a book might help but about the pictures rather than the boring camera. The little Olympus is quite capable of taking exciting pictures as well as boring ones. In fact, it usually takes a picture of whatever's in front of it and doesn't choose it. That's your job...

Hope this helps.

Regards, David

 

[Huss]

.
Here's one - ending today Fri 2/19 at 4:30 PT - Asahi Pentax K1000 Film Camera w 3 Lenses & Flash (27691793) currently priced at $41, and I'd be surprised if it goes for more than $65. That's the K1000, a 28mm lens, a 50mm, a 75-200 zoom, and a Vivitar 2600 flash.

Caveat: There is no guarantee about functionality. But I've had good luck.

YMMV

-mike

It has lenses with fungus. Which means the camera may also have fungus. Stay away!

 

[ferider]

I'm conflicted how to answer you.

.) Over a whole year, I typically get less than a dozen of pictures that I _really_ like. So 3 to 4 shots over a couple of months is not bad. The "keeper rate" is much higher when I travel, in particular when photography is one of the goals of a trip.
.) Yes, the camera doesn't take the photo, you do. And the Stylus is not bad. But then - for me - a boring camera takes boring photos. Only you can know if this is true for you as well.
.) Manual control helps with a certain type of photos (careful exposure and focusing, etc., for example landscapes, or other more carefully planned shots). Not sure if these interest you.

Sorry, not much help, I guess. But if you have budget and time, maybe spend it first on a photo vacation, and only on new gear with second priority.

Roland.