New Zeiss Ikon + Lens?

[sakayume]

sadly, I think at this point it's going to be next to impossible to get a new ZI. I now regret not getting a second one when I had the chance, I like mine so much. $1600 for a demo may be the best you can do, and they know it. ;-)

I wasn't using film when the ZIs were still available, and now that I am, they're gone. 🙁 I'm going to have a look at the demo this weekend, but $1600 is a bit hard to stomach when previously one might have gotten a new one at that price. I might end up getting one from ebay 🙂eek🙂, though I worry about rangefinder misalignment, popping framelines etc.

 

[froyd]

If you are considering a ZM you should certainly start with the Bessa r2a. It's 90% of what the ZM is at 40% of the price. I speak from the experience of having had both cameras for a significant amount of time. I was lured by the legend of the ZM VF, but in the end, I found that I much prefer the RF patch of the Bessas and the Leicas. Beware of buying on stats and bullet points...they don't always add up.

Sounds like you are interested in Aperture Priority since you are considering the Ikon. I would advise you to consider how the AE Lock is implemented in the Ikon vs the Bessa vs the M7. For AE to be useful, you'll need to be riding that AEL button a lot, and its implementation could be a dealbreaker for your style of shooting. I have small hands so I found that I was much slower working with the ZM in AE mode than in M. That's because I'm much more used to the "hold the shutter half way" AEL lock method or even top-mounted AE switches.

 

[sakayume]

If you are considering a ZM you should certainly start with the Bessa r2a. It's 90% of what the ZM is at 40% of the price. I speak from the experience of having had both cameras for a significant amount of time. I was lured by the legend of the ZM VF, but in the end, I found that I much prefer the RF patch of the Bessas and the Leicas. Beware of buying on stats and bullet points...they don't always add up.

Sounds like you are interested in Aperture Priority since you are considering the Ikon. I would advise you to consider how the AE Lock is implemented in the Ikon vs the Bessa vs the M7. For AE to be useful, you'll need to be riding that AEL button a lot, and its implementation could be a dealbreaker for your style of shooting. I have small hands so I found that I was much slower working with the ZM in AE mode than in M. That's because I'm much more used to the "hold the shutter half way" AEL lock method or even top-mounted AE switches.

Thanks for your advice. I fully agree with you about not buying purely based on specifications on paper, and I wouldn't buy any of these sight unseen. I plan on getting only one (film rangefinder) camera and would rather not go through the hassle of selling and trading (up) later, so would rather spend more initially on the ZI if it really is the camera I like best. I considered Leicas too, but those within my budget are already rather old and the specimens (M2/M3) I managed to get my hands on had viewfinders that don't seem to have aged well. I'm also wary of the CLA/maintenance costs involved with an older camera. No doubt there are excellent examples out there, but the ones I've seen haven't inspired confidence in ordering one over the internet.

I actually haven't used AP with a manual film camera yet! 😱 And AP/battery dependency is actually the thing I like least about the ZI (at least on paper) as I'm concerned about its long term durability/repair. Though I do like the idea of having a meter as I'm (still) lousy at guessing exposures. I definitely will try out the ergonomics of the ZI's AE lock button if/when I get my hands on one.

I know it looks like I've overthought this, and that's certainly true, but ultimately my decision hinges on handling the cameras. I've trawled through words and words on the internet, but choosing a camera is such a subjective thing I haven't been able to make a decision solely on internet wisdom. 😉 Buying my OM was so much easier as I already had the lenses.

 

[whitecat]

It's a great camera with a better than Leica viewfinder. Make the extra effort and get yourself one.

 

[tuanvinh2000]

Sound like you want an M6, same price point and very reliable, and can found in better conditions than the older meterless bodies. i'm happiest with an M6.

I actually haven't used AP with a manual film camera yet! 😱 And AP/battery dependency is actually the thing I like least about the ZI (at least on paper) as I'm concerned about its long term durability/repair. Though I do like the idea of having a meter as I'm (still) lousy at guessing exposures. I definitely will try out the ergonomics of the ZI's AE lock button if/when I get my hands on one.

 

[goo0h]

I actually haven't used AP with a manual film camera yet! 😱 And AP/battery dependency is actually the thing I like least about the ZI (at least on paper) as I'm concerned about its long term durability/repair. Though I do like the idea of having a meter as I'm (still) lousy at guessing exposures. I definitely will try out the ergonomics of the ZI's AE lock button if/when I get my hands on one.

FWIW, I first started out with a Bessa R3a, which I got a lot of use out of. I must admit the 1:1 finder of the R3a is very nice. Then after much internal-debating, I ordered the ZI. I have largish hands, so the ever so slightly larger ZI with the ZI grip just fit my hands better. I also wear glasses, and found the ZI finder to just be a lot easier for me to work with. I eventually sold my R3a because I just wasn't using it much anymore.

One good thing about the Bessa is that they are pretty reasonable, and for what you could spend on a Leica, you could probably buy 2 or even 3 Bessas for backup. 😉

In terms of battery, the battery in my ZI lasts about a year. They're also so small that I keep a spare set in my bag. Definitely not the power drain of a DSLR. 😉

 

[sakayume]

Sound like you want an M6, same price point and very reliable, and can found in better conditions than the older meterless bodies. i'm happiest with an M6.

I think I would like the M6, but did not think they would be within my budget. Also I haven't found any available locally where I might be able to inspect the camera before purchasing. But maybe one will turn up.

 

[sakayume]

FWIW, I first started out with a Bessa R3a, which I got a lot of use out of. I must admit the 1:1 finder of the R3a is very nice. Then after much internal-debating, I ordered the ZI. I have largish hands, so the ever so slightly larger ZI with the ZI grip just fit my hands better. I also wear glasses, and found the ZI finder to just be a lot easier for me to work with. I eventually sold my R3a because I just wasn't using it much anymore.

One good thing about the Bessa is that they are pretty reasonable, and for what you could spend on a Leica, you could probably buy 2 or even 3 Bessas for backup. 😉

In terms of battery, the battery in my ZI lasts about a year. They're also so small that I keep a spare set in my bag. Definitely not the power drain of a DSLR. 😉

Indeed, the Bessa is tempting me because of the price, and in the hands it didn't seem at all as awful as some internet opinions make it out to be. The viewfinder was a revelation after the old cameras I'd seen previously. 😛 I'm prepared to be awed by the ZI's viewfinder too. 😀

I'm not too worried about operating battery consumption (but it's good to know the batteries last!), but rather the potential future lack of parts for repair of the ZI's electronics now that it's been discontinued. I'd like the camera I buy to have a reasonable lifespan, which is uncertain for the ZI (and Bessa).

 

[froyd]

I think I would like the M6, but did not think they would be within my budget. Also I haven't found any available locally where I might be able to inspect the camera before purchasing. But maybe one will turn up.

Another option (not that you asked!) would be the R2M. No battery dependency, but I agree with others that it's no big deal to keep a spare set on hand.

PS- If you don't use glasses and are not a 28mm users don't build up too much expectation for the ZM finder. It's certainly good, but flawed as well, in part due to its size.

 

[sakayume]

Another option (not that you asked!) would be the R2M. No battery dependency, but I agree with others that it's no big deal to keep a spare set on hand.

PS- If you don't use glasses and are not a 28mm users don't build up too much expectation for the ZM finder. It's certainly good, but flawed as well, in part due to its size.

I really appreciate the suggestions and advice I've been getting here. 🙂 The Bessa model I'm considering is actually the R2M as I'll be using mainly 35mm and 50mm focal lengths and prefer the mechanical shutter.

I had a look at the ZI today and I'm even more undecided. :bang: The ZI is really lovely (and surprisingly light!) but I found it a little easier to focus with the Bessa than the ZI and the AE lock button is indeed in an awkward position for me. I thought if I found the ZI noticeably superior to the Bessa I would just get it and put myself out of my overthinking misery, but alas the two are not so different.

 

[magicianhisoka]

Had a R3a and the ikon. the ikon wins handsdown for its AE and brighter focusing viewfinder.

If I were you, I'd take the plunge 🙂

 

[sakayume]

Had a R3a and the ikon. the ikon wins handsdown for its AE and brighter focusing viewfinder.

If I were you, I'd take the plunge 🙂

I wish I could be so decisive! I managed to find an M6 (and a few other Ms) locally and now with the M2/M4/M6 am inundated with choices so my position is even worse than before! :bang: I like the format of the Ikon meter read out better, but the M6 meter readout is easier to see. I still prefer the "on" switch and match needle meter implementation of my OM (meter readout doesn't turn itself off after a certain period of time), though that might only be because it's what I'm accustomed to.

I'm going to (re)read the relevant forum threads, maybe I'll find enlightenment in words. 😛