What is not clear from the Zeiss text that Huck quoted is whether the manual frameline selector lever is spring-loaded as on a Leica or whether it can be left latched into the position you want, to override the automatic setting as appropriate.
As when using a 40mm lens which automatically engages the 50mm framelines and you wish to use 35mm framelines instead. It would be nice... The manual frameline selector on the Bessa has this advantage.
As when using a 40mm lens which automatically engages the 50mm framelines and you wish to use 35mm framelines instead. It would be nice... The manual frameline selector on the Bessa has this advantage.
JohnL
Very confused
Thanks Huck Finn for info above!
jdos2
Well-known
backalley photo said:
2.
Huck Finn
Well-known
Doug said:
Doug, judging by the lever on the front of the camera, I'm assuming that it is the same as Leica until I see information to the contrary. Hopefully, Hasselblad will have a prototype at Photoplus Expo in New York in a couple of weeks so that we can handle one & report back.
I've been reading on the Leica customer forum that the Zeiss lenses developed for the film industry are simply superb - including input from at least one person in the film industry. According to Zeiss, these serve as the basis for new formulas for these lenses. I'm really looking forward to test results & users' feedback
I was going to say we have some time to save our pennies for the Zeiss Ikon camera.... But on second thought we'll be hampered by temptation over the lenses, four of which will be available this or next month. Gonna be tough!
Huck Finn
Well-known
Hasselblad in New Jersey told me that they don't expect them here until early next year. By then I'll be broke from the holidays, so I'll have to wait until May anyway. LOL
Huck Finn
Well-known
Doug said:
Doug, I referred your question to Carl Zeiss in Germany. It is in fact the same as Leica. Here is their kind reply:
"The attached lens determines the frame lines visible. While that lens is attached, you can override its frame with the lever. Of course the lever has to come back by itself once you release it. Otherwise the photographer runs the risk of severe errors in subsequent framing. Sounds logical?"
Thanks for the detailed inquiry, Huck! Wonder how they'd answer a customer wanting to mount the 40 'cron or 40 Nokton.
I'm disappointed that they didn't improve upon the Leica design. With a 40mm lens, and a desire to constantly use the 35 framelines, I guess maybe a little gaffer tape could hold the lever all the way to the left to get that frame.
I'm disappointed that they didn't improve upon the Leica design. With a 40mm lens, and a desire to constantly use the 35 framelines, I guess maybe a little gaffer tape could hold the lever all the way to the left to get that frame.
Huck Finn
Well-known
Doug I thought of that question after the fact, so I e-mailed them again with your question about the 40 this morning. with the time difference between here & Germany, I don't expect to hear back from them until Monday at the earliest since the weekend is upon us. I'll post when I hear from them.
Huck Finn
Well-known
Doug, here is the reply that I received from Carl Zeiss re 40mm lens on the ZI body:
"You will see frames for the 50mm lens when you attach the Nokton Classic 1.4/40 to a Zeiss Ikon or Leica body. So you can crop your subject quite tight since you will have about 25% more on the film.
You may also selct the 35mm framelines (manually & not permanently); they just show slightly more than the real field of the 40mm lens because rangefinder frames at infinity show in general less than 90% of the real field."
Theye also made the following observation about the use of my 40mm Rollei Sonnar, which would apply to any Leica thread mount lens:
"The Sonnar for the Rollei 35 RF will bring up any frameline which you like since it basically comes with an M39 thread mount & couples with an adapter ring to the M-mount. So, this ring defines the automatically selected frames. The rings exist in 3 different versions for the 3 different frame sets for the Leica system. So, you make the choice to see either 35mm or 50mm frames with the 40mm lens."
"You will see frames for the 50mm lens when you attach the Nokton Classic 1.4/40 to a Zeiss Ikon or Leica body. So you can crop your subject quite tight since you will have about 25% more on the film.
You may also selct the 35mm framelines (manually & not permanently); they just show slightly more than the real field of the 40mm lens because rangefinder frames at infinity show in general less than 90% of the real field."
Theye also made the following observation about the use of my 40mm Rollei Sonnar, which would apply to any Leica thread mount lens:
"The Sonnar for the Rollei 35 RF will bring up any frameline which you like since it basically comes with an M39 thread mount & couples with an adapter ring to the M-mount. So, this ring defines the automatically selected frames. The rings exist in 3 different versions for the 3 different frame sets for the Leica system. So, you make the choice to see either 35mm or 50mm frames with the 40mm lens."
taffer
void
Oh... it looks very... very... VERY nice... just like an XL Leica CL...
:bang:
...
segmentation fault, core dump as follows:
hello,mynameistafferandican'tstopbuyingcameras-
hello,mynameistafferandican'tstopbuyingcameras-
hello,mynameistafferandican'tstopbuyingcameras-
hello,mynameistafferandican'tstopbuyingcameras...
kernel panic !
:bang:...
segmentation fault, core dump as follows:
hello,mynameistafferandican'tstopbuyingcameras-
hello,mynameistafferandican'tstopbuyingcameras-
hello,mynameistafferandican'tstopbuyingcameras-
hello,mynameistafferandican'tstopbuyingcameras...
kernel panic !
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GeneW
Veteran
LOL!
I know I've seen a few threads on photo.net about filing something off the Summicron-40 mount so it brings up the 35mm frames, but doesn't affect the CL.
I like the Bessa philosophy of selecting your frames manually. Appropriate for a manual camera, n'est ce pas?
Gene
Thanks very much, Huck, for getting that clarification from Zeiss. That the framelines are selected automatically à la Leica-M is one key element that was expected, given the location of what we assumed was the frameline selector lever. For what it's worth, my CLE doesn't even have one of those.
But the next issue that I thought was a biggie was whether this selector lever could be "latched" into another position to remain somewhere other than automatically selected. To me, that would be a useful improvement.
A latching feature would give users a choice of 35 frames for the 40mm lenses that default to 50 frames. And it would offer a choice to 75mm Summilux users whether to pick the 50 or 85 frames. Those with Voigtlander 75mm or Zeiss 80mm lenses can pick their preferred screw-mount adaptor.
Screw-mount lenses with the bayonet adaptor of your preference, as suggested by Zeiss, is a pretty handy way to handle the problem. But of course only with L39 lenses. I use a Voigtlander 28mm on my CLE with a 35/90 adaptor, which on that camera leaves just the 28 frames showing. Nifty!
But the next issue that I thought was a biggie was whether this selector lever could be "latched" into another position to remain somewhere other than automatically selected. To me, that would be a useful improvement.
A latching feature would give users a choice of 35 frames for the 40mm lenses that default to 50 frames. And it would offer a choice to 75mm Summilux users whether to pick the 50 or 85 frames. Those with Voigtlander 75mm or Zeiss 80mm lenses can pick their preferred screw-mount adaptor.
Screw-mount lenses with the bayonet adaptor of your preference, as suggested by Zeiss, is a pretty handy way to handle the problem. But of course only with L39 lenses. I use a Voigtlander 28mm on my CLE with a 35/90 adaptor, which on that camera leaves just the 28 frames showing. Nifty!
True, Gene, the Bessa's manual frame selection is a solution as well. Yet Zeiss suggested that allowing the customer to override the automatic frame selection would lead to unhappy errors. But the same is true for a Bessa if you neglect to change the frame selector manually when changing lenses, huh... Just part of having your act together!
Kris, I hear your pain and share it! We'll have another 5-6 months to sweat it out. But that ZI sure looks like a honey of a camera. Did you note that huge viewfinder eyepiece?
Latest word has it coming in at 60% Leica prices...
Latest word has it coming in at 60% Leica prices...
I hope they actually bring it out in black; doesn't this look great?
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
hey, it looks like my yashica CC ! Just with a smaller lens...
K
Kris
Guest
That's a massive viewfinder! I guess you will be able to see 28mm framelines without squeezing your eyeball into the VF.
But the price...oh the price.....I need to win a lottery to afford this babe paired with 85/2.0 :bang:
Huck Finn
Well-known
Doug, what are you hearing on the prices? I haven't heard anything for a while. I'm hoping that Hasselblad may have some info when I go to PhotoPlus Expo next week, What I heard initially was 1500 - 1800 Euros. I assumed that meant 1500 without VAT & 1800 with VAT, 300 Euros would be roughly the VAT difference. That would mean roughly $1900.
If it is $1900 with a standard lens, that would be where the Konica Hexar RF began & the camera would have a market. However, if it is body only, it may get off to a rough start. Yes, it is cheaper than the MP or the M7, but you can still get a brand new Leica M6 TTL at B&H for $1995. It had better be up to Leica build quality at that price or the Leica folks will trash it out of the gate as they did with the Hexar RF re the so-called flange problem. Zeiss/Hasselblad marketing folks better be on their toes because it will be war. The lenses, on the other hand, will be stiff competition for Leica & may send them running for the hills! BTW, although rare, you can still find a new Hexar RF for under $1000 or for $1500 with 50/2 lens, flash, & case.
I read that initially it will be out in black only in Japan - a concession to Cosina I assume. Hasselblad will be the world-wide distributor everywhere except Japan, so again I assume that Cosina will be the Japanese distributor. Maybe B&H can do their thing . . . go out & buy a bunch of them in Japan so that they are available here in both finishes AND at a cheaper price. That would be nice! Anyone know what the Cosina distribution network is like in Japan?
If it is $1900 with a standard lens, that would be where the Konica Hexar RF began & the camera would have a market. However, if it is body only, it may get off to a rough start. Yes, it is cheaper than the MP or the M7, but you can still get a brand new Leica M6 TTL at B&H for $1995. It had better be up to Leica build quality at that price or the Leica folks will trash it out of the gate as they did with the Hexar RF re the so-called flange problem. Zeiss/Hasselblad marketing folks better be on their toes because it will be war. The lenses, on the other hand, will be stiff competition for Leica & may send them running for the hills! BTW, although rare, you can still find a new Hexar RF for under $1000 or for $1500 with 50/2 lens, flash, & case.
I read that initially it will be out in black only in Japan - a concession to Cosina I assume. Hasselblad will be the world-wide distributor everywhere except Japan, so again I assume that Cosina will be the Japanese distributor. Maybe B&H can do their thing . . . go out & buy a bunch of them in Japan so that they are available here in both finishes AND at a cheaper price. That would be nice! Anyone know what the Cosina distribution network is like in Japan?
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Huck, the "60% of Leica" tidbit came from a post by Steven Gandy to the CVUG and RFList mailing lists on 10/1, reporting on what he saw at Photokina:Huck Finn said:
"With a long rangefinder base length of 75mm and magnification of .7, it has a EBL longer than the .72 M6 but not quite so long as the .85 M6. The lenses were shown at Photokina, but only non working mock ups of the bodies. The public saw the silver version. Behind the scenes was a nice looking black paint body which Hassleblad was wondering if they should put in production.
"The system is aimed at about 60% of the cost of the equivalent Leica item. With the big price difference it may not have much effect on Voigtlander sales, but it may prove a big problem for Leica M sales. The lenses are beautifully made and finished, as befitting the new flagship of the Zeiss line."
The closest Leica competitor is the M7, which B&H offers at $2800 for body only, and $3700 with 2.0/50 'cron. Sixty percent would be $1680 and $2220. Is that tempting enough?
Karen Nakamura mentioned at the same time that the first 4 lenses will be released now in Japan only; in US only later with the camera body.
I'll be interested to hear what you find out at PhotoPlus Expo! Hopefully Hasselblad's US offices will be up to speed on this.