C
ch1
Guest
So here's what I am wondering....
If all of these CZ lenses are now being made in Japan, are they still German glass?
If all of these CZ lenses are now being made in Japan, are they still German glass?
New Zeiss SLR List Prices
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RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
copake_ham said:So here's what I am wondering....
If all of these CZ lenses are now being made in Japan, are they still German glass?
Good question, George. Was the glass grinding and coating work done in Germany or was everything done at Cosina's facility.
R.J.
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
Wow...I thought they'd be higher than that.
SDK
Exposing since 1969.
Interesting, RJ. The diagrams are different from the CY mount versions, but not hugely so. There are slight changes in the surface curvature, but the major differnces seem to be in the parts of the elements that would be attachment points for the barrel and would not affect the image much, assuming their edges are properly blackened. The simpler shapes of the sides of the elements would simplify manufacturing and presumably reduce costs. without degrading performance much, if any.
I expect that the new ZF lenses also have new and different glass types too, since I read somewhere Zeiss, Schött and Leica have been collaborating in recent years to produce a lot of new glass formulations. It would be cool of the 85mm/1.4 uses some anomalous partial dispersion elements to provide apochromatic correction like the Leica M 75/2 AA and 90/2 AA Summicrons and some of the Apo R lenses.
It's too bad Cosina and Zeiss have not released MTF tests yet. I hope Zeiss' engineers have surpassed their Contax designs. If Zeiss does market a 28mm/2 Distagon in ZF mount with a good MTF wide open, it may well find a buyer here, though I will have to trade for it, as my significant other has put his foot down and I'm not allowed to spend any more money on equipment.
The diagrams are different from the CY mount versions, but not hugely so. There are slight changes in the surface curvature, but the major differnces seem to be in the parts of the elements that would be attachment points for the barrel and would not affect the image much, assuming their edges are properly blackened. The simpler shapes of the sides of the elements would simplify manufacturing and presumably reduce costs. without degrading performance much, if any.I expect that the new ZF lenses also have new and different glass types too, since I read somewhere Zeiss, Schött and Leica have been collaborating in recent years to produce a lot of new glass formulations. It would be cool of the 85mm/1.4 uses some anomalous partial dispersion elements to provide apochromatic correction like the Leica M 75/2 AA and 90/2 AA Summicrons and some of the Apo R lenses.
It's too bad Cosina and Zeiss have not released MTF tests yet. I hope Zeiss' engineers have surpassed their Contax designs. If Zeiss does market a 28mm/2 Distagon in ZF mount with a good MTF wide open, it may well find a buyer here, though I will have to trade for it, as my significant other has put his foot down and I'm not allowed to spend any more money on equipment.
RJBender said:The 85mm f/1.4 Planar for the Contax N1 has 10 elements in 9 groups:
http://www.contaxusa.com/lensdetail.asp?brandid=&parent=141000
The 85mm f/1.4 Planar for the RTSIII has 6 elements in 5 groups:
http://www.contaxusa.com/lensdetail.asp?brandid=&parent=123000
The 85mm f/1.4 Planar for Rollei QBM had 6 elements in 5 groups:
source: http://www.rolleiclub.com/rollei/sl35/lenses/images/zeiss/
The 85mm f/1.4 Planar ZF also has 6 elements in 5 groups:
source: http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/co/zf-85/index.html
R.J.
Huck Finn
Well-known
HamSW said:
I see no evidence that the first 2 items on the list are factual. I doubt that any of us knows what Cosina's manufacturing capacity is one way or another, but we do know that Nikon has not pulled out of MF Nikkor lens manufacture. Nikon fans will still have 9 MF lenses to choose from that will continue in production.
Huck
Huck Finn
Well-known
copake_ham said:So here's what I am wondering....
If all of these CZ lenses are now being made in Japan, are they still German glass?
My guess is that the glass will be produced in Japan. It doesn't make economic sense for them to manufacture glass in one country & ship it to another 5000 miles away to complete production. I read somewhere in the past that all aspects of production for Contax cameras & lenses were based in Japan for this very reason. Also sited was the problem that any disruptions in shipping between the two countries would then disrupt manufacturing operations as well.
Huck
Mazurka
Well-known
I wonder whether the lenses are made of Schott Japan glass or Hoya glass?
RObert Budding
D'oh!
RJBender said:
Why is that a good question? The Japanese are every bit as good at manufacturing lenses as are the Germans.
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
RObert Budding said:
Just trying to justify the prices of these lenses.
R.J.
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
I'd like to have more information on these lenses. The Zeiss brand is not enough for me.
R.J.
R.J.
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
Stephanie Brim said:
Shhhhhhh.
R.J.
C
ch1
Guest
RJBender said:Just trying to justify the prices of these lenses.
R.J.
Hey R.J. - where've you been?
On another thread I noted that it's interesting to see Zeiss/Cosina is now producing imitation Nikkors!
Imagine spending $100 more for a Cosina-made/Zeiss-badged 50/1.4 MF F-mount than getting the "real McCoy" Nikkor!
As they say, "A fool and his money...."!
George
leafy
Established
It all seems strange to me that you seem to imply "Cosina made == crap" or "Cosina made == it must be cheap else it's crap". Implying that even before seeing the lens or the picture it produces is really beyond me. Where did you get such reasoning?copake_ham said:Hey R.J. - where've you been?
On another thread I noted that it's interesting to see Zeiss/Cosina is now producing imitation Nikkors!
Imagine spending $100 more for a Cosina-made/Zeiss-badged 50/1.4 MF F-mount than getting the "real McCoy" Nikkor!
As they say, "A fool and his money...."!
George
Leafy, I think George just enjoys a bit of trolling...
Huck Finn
Well-known
Doug said:
No doubt.
So much speculation in this thread is just not true..
So much speculation in this thread is just not true..
Guys and Gals,
There is SO much speculation in this thread that is just BS and inaccurate , it's a real shame because this thread does not live up to the normal high RFF standards.
Cosina is one of only two lens makers that I know of that makes its own glass. The other is Nikon. Neither Zeiss or Leica presently have this capability. In turn Cosina has supplied special blends of glass to many lens makers. The abiltiy to turn out relaively small quantities of special purpose glass is a MAJOR reason that Cosina was an attractive partner to Zeiss for the ZM camera and the new ZF lenses.
Cosina and Zeiss are PARTNERS on the project. Look around the net. I know of no other photography websites other than Cosina's and Zeiss that you will find the Zeiss logo.
While the new Cosina made Zeiss camera and lenses are primarily Zeiss designs (they do have the Zeiss name afterall), there is considerable Cosina input.
The new Zeiss products are NOT rebadged Cosina designs. Anyone suggesting otherwise is so far off the mark that I'm embaressed for them.
EACH Cosina made Zeiss item passes Zeiss quality control. Each serial numbered camera or lens has a signed Zeiss quality control tag in the box, signed by a Zeiss inspector at the Cosina factory.
The ZM lenses were designed to be as good or better than Leica's more expensive M lenses. Users reports seem to confirm this for the ZM 21, 25, 28, and 50. The 35/2 is almost there, but not quite. Cosina has succeeded in supplying the high end Leica RF market with Zeiss, and the best buy Leica RF market with Voigtlander -- something NO other RF maker has ever done!
Zeiss is extremely proud of their optics, and more than a little ticked off that many people believe that upstart microscope company in Solms is making the best camera lenses. You can be sure Zeiss and Cosina have done their best to make the best SLR lenses currently availalbe. IF they have not succeeded, there is no doubt in my mind the new SLR lenses will be among the very best. Time and user reports will tell.
In short folks, even if you don't ever buy one, be happy that Zeiss and Cosina have teamed up for a new lineup of high peformance manual focus 35mm SLR lenses. All it can do is help raise the bar a little higher for every new lens. Just when many are seeing film as dead, there is a new player in high end SLR lenses and Leica mount lenses! Things are gettting interesting.
Stephen Gandy
So much speculation in this thread is just not true..
Guys and Gals,
There is SO much speculation in this thread that is just BS and inaccurate , it's a real shame because this thread does not live up to the normal high RFF standards.
Cosina is one of only two lens makers that I know of that makes its own glass. The other is Nikon. Neither Zeiss or Leica presently have this capability. In turn Cosina has supplied special blends of glass to many lens makers. The abiltiy to turn out relaively small quantities of special purpose glass is a MAJOR reason that Cosina was an attractive partner to Zeiss for the ZM camera and the new ZF lenses.
Cosina and Zeiss are PARTNERS on the project. Look around the net. I know of no other photography websites other than Cosina's and Zeiss that you will find the Zeiss logo.
While the new Cosina made Zeiss camera and lenses are primarily Zeiss designs (they do have the Zeiss name afterall), there is considerable Cosina input.
The new Zeiss products are NOT rebadged Cosina designs. Anyone suggesting otherwise is so far off the mark that I'm embaressed for them.
EACH Cosina made Zeiss item passes Zeiss quality control. Each serial numbered camera or lens has a signed Zeiss quality control tag in the box, signed by a Zeiss inspector at the Cosina factory.
The ZM lenses were designed to be as good or better than Leica's more expensive M lenses. Users reports seem to confirm this for the ZM 21, 25, 28, and 50. The 35/2 is almost there, but not quite. Cosina has succeeded in supplying the high end Leica RF market with Zeiss, and the best buy Leica RF market with Voigtlander -- something NO other RF maker has ever done!
Zeiss is extremely proud of their optics, and more than a little ticked off that many people believe that upstart microscope company in Solms is making the best camera lenses. You can be sure Zeiss and Cosina have done their best to make the best SLR lenses currently availalbe. IF they have not succeeded, there is no doubt in my mind the new SLR lenses will be among the very best. Time and user reports will tell.
In short folks, even if you don't ever buy one, be happy that Zeiss and Cosina have teamed up for a new lineup of high peformance manual focus 35mm SLR lenses. All it can do is help raise the bar a little higher for every new lens. Just when many are seeing film as dead, there is a new player in high end SLR lenses and Leica mount lenses! Things are gettting interesting.
Stephen Gandy
The hammer has fallen!
Stephen,
Thank you for stepping in and stating the facts. There is no question that what you say comes with the highest respect in the industry. Having said that, my next lens will be the new 15. Again thank you for your contributions to the forum.
Stephen,
Thank you for stepping in and stating the facts. There is no question that what you say comes with the highest respect in the industry. Having said that, my next lens will be the new 15.
Again thank you for your contributions to the forum.yossarian
Well-known
With respect to Mr. Gandy the statement about Zeiss not making their own glass is a little misleading. Schott supplies glass to Zeiss (and Leica), but Zeiss has had a majority interest in Schott for decades. So, while technically Zeiss doesn't make their own glass, they control the company which does.
This remark obviously only applies to Zeiss lenses manufactured in Germany. As the
Contax line progressed over time, all those lenses were re-formulated as necessary
for Japanese glass types. There have probably been additional changes to allow for any differences between Hoya and Cosina glass.
Cosina has since its inception manufactured everything except the Copal shutters they use in-house.
Fred
This remark obviously only applies to Zeiss lenses manufactured in Germany. As the
Contax line progressed over time, all those lenses were re-formulated as necessary
for Japanese glass types. There have probably been additional changes to allow for any differences between Hoya and Cosina glass.
Cosina has since its inception manufactured everything except the Copal shutters they use in-house.
Fred
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F
Frank Granovski
Guest
There ya go---something I suspected for a long time. Zeiss is better than L-glass but at a fraction of the cost! Now my Leica glass will be posted on the sales forum but not before I buy some Zeiss Ms.
C
ch1
Guest
leafy said:
I don't believe this!
I am not implying that Cosina makes crap at all! If you think that then you have no understanding of what I am trying to say!
What I am saying is that it is Zeiss has sold its brandname to Cosina. Now thos of us who have used Nikkors for years are supposed to think we are finally getting something better!
B.S. (Which is plain old American for Bull Shit!)
Nikon has made better glass than Zeiss (and Leitz) for fifty years. The fact that old time Europhiles will only now buy Japanese glass because Zeiss is selling their brand is what is "crap"!
I've been using Nikon gear and Nikkors for over thirty years - and I am P'd off that folks now think that "knock offs" from third party manufacturers are somehow better.
BS