New ZI or used M6-TTL - Which would you buy?

C

ch1

Guest
Even though I am a dyed-in-the-wool Nikonian I'm thinking about an M-mount camera. Yes, I know this is blasphemy.

It is now about six months since the ZI came out. After some early "teething problems" (not surprising with a new product) it seems to be getting good reviews.

If I were to join the "dark side" ;) at the amount I'm willing to spend I would probably choose either a new ZI or a excellent condition used M6-TTL from someone like KEH.

While keeping it civil (please!) can the M-mount folks here comment on the pros and cons of each and what THEY would do?
 
i can't talk to the m6 as i don't have one.

the big knock against the zi is weight and that it's not a leica.
it is foolish, i think, for people to hold a camera for 10 minutes and pronounce it not as good as...especially based on weight.
i now prefer the zi and one reason is the lighter weight.
also, the finder is incredible, so bright and for my old eyes, the easiest of all to focus.

gotta go...will write more later.
joe
 
The ZI rf/vf is extremely bright. It has 55.9mm rf effective base length. It weighs plenty but isn't heavy. It feels solid and sturdy. It has an internal meter. The shutter noise is louder than the Leica.

I'm really happy I won the ZI. Though I feel sad to sell the M2, I won't regret it. The M2 didn't see any action. I reckon the ZI will see much more.
 
I have an m6ttl and I would love to try a ZI. There are only a few things that i could think of that haven't been said, and as I have never even seen a ZI I only have second hand knowledge...but If you were really interested in the 75mm Summilux, 75mm Summicron, or 75mm CV lens than the Leica has frame lines for 75mm and the ZI does not. The ZI has 85mm frames instead of 90mm (not a big deal in my book as i use 85mm lenses with my 90mm lines). The Leica has framelines for 135mm lenses while the ZI does not. If you were really interested in useing Leica's DR Summicron with the closefocus viewfinder or the 135mm f2.8 with eyes the Leica would be a better fit. The leica has a setting for iso 6400 while i believe that the ZI has up to 3200 (i could be wrong) ... but of course the ZI is supposed to have one of the greatest finders ever, it would be new, and it would have ae...
 
Chaser said:
If you were really interested in the 75mm Summilux, 75mm Summicron, or 75mm CV lens than the Leica has frame lines for 75mm and the ZI does not.

The Leica has framelines for 135mm lenses while the ZI does not. If you were really interested in useing Leica's DR Summicron with the closefocus viewfinder or the 135mm f2.8 with eyes the Leica would be a better fit.
Click to expand...

The corollary to this point about frame line availability, of course, is also true. If you do not use the 75 & 135 focal lengths, then the ZI offers a nice uncluttered viewfinder in the same way that the M4 & M2 did.
 
I'm in the ZI camp. It's new, under warranty, has (by all accounts) a great finder, & ae. The only real feature I am aware of that the ZI doesn't have is TTL Flash. The frame issues are as Chaser suggests but since you are not already burdened with LTM/M lenses you'll be able to purchase lenses as appropriate to your tastes, whichever camera you do choose, & the extent of your wallet :)

William
 
How is that for an unanswerable question?:) Can't you borrow/beg the different camera's for a few days to try it out for yourself?
 
I would DEFINITELY buy the M6!!!
BECAUSE:

1. IT IS LEICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. I had VERY VERY bad experience with contax G2
3. ZI is overpriced BESSA R3A (I don't trust COSINA, BTW)
4. I don't want my camera to be dead without batteries. M6 works everywhere/everytime
5. Look carefully at the lever that opens the back door!!! Absolutly UNSAFE... You WILL loose your pictures because of it.
6. ZI shutter NOISE!!!
7. Are you still thinking? Run and buy M6

Regards...
 
A disclaimer: I have handled neither of the cameras (but I have the older M's) so my opinion here is not informed by first-hand experience. I will side with the M6 camp. My reasons are rational and sentimental in equal measure.

First, I have decided never to buy new equipment again but only find it in the second-hand market. New gear loses value the minute you touch it. Presumably that means that the moment you open the box of the ZI you have just lost 20% of its value. Not so with a used M6. Of course, if you find the ZI used then it is a different matter.

Second, I think that the heft and heaviness of the M6 makes for more steady shooting. I am not disputing the quality of the ZI, I am just saying that I find the weight of the M ideal for my needs. I have shot with lighter cameras and have found that my hand shakes more.

Third, and perhaps irrationally, I absolutely love cameras (not just M's) that are battery independent (the light meter of the M6 takes batteries of course). This is partly due to my enthusiasm for all things that hark back to the glory days of mechanical wonders. A very personal thing no doubt. But also to my feeling that it may really happen that your batteries drain and all you have is a dead camera. Sure, you can always have replacement cells with you. That's what it is to be battery dependent. Some people mind it, some don't. I do.

The point about the framelines is also valid. If you need to have the 75 framelines then you know which camera to buy (I think shooting with a 135mm lens will be a bit of a stretch though).

As I said, this is my preference and not an attempt to put down the ZI, a wonderful camera by any measure - which however comes second in my list.
 
RML said:
The ZI rf/vf is extremely bright. It has 55.9mm rf effective base length. It weighs plenty but isn't heavy. It feels solid and sturdy. It has an internal meter. The shutter noise is louder than the Leica.

I'm really happy I won the ZI. Though I feel sad to sell the M2, I won't regret it. The M2 didn't see any action. I reckon the ZI will see much more.
Click to expand...


ha ha! Just when you thought you were out, we pulled you back in!
 
ARS said:
I would DEFINITELY buy the M6!!!
BECAUSE:

1. IT IS LEICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. I had VERY VERY bad experience with contax G2
3. ZI is overpriced BESSA R3A (I don't trust COSINA, BTW)
4. I don't want my camera to be dead without batteries. M6 works everywhere/everytime
5. Look carefully at the lever that opens the back door!!! Absolutly UNSAFE... You WILL loose your pictures because of it.
6. ZI shutter NOISE!!!
7. Are you still thinking? Run and buy M6

Regards...
Click to expand...

ARS,

Oh come, that's a bit tough for Cosina...

I would say a M6 is the better choice, I don't own a cosina or a ZI but that's a bit tough!

telenous said:
A disclaimer: I have handled neither of the cameras (but I have the older M's) so my opinion here is not informed by first-hand experience. I will side with the M6 camp. My reasons are rational and sentimental in equal measure.

First, I have decided never to buy new equipment again but only find it in the second-hand market. New gear loses value the minute you touch it. Presumably that means that the moment you open the box of the ZI you have just lost 20% of its value. Not so with a used M6. Of course, if you find the ZI used then it is a different matter.

Second, I think that the heft and heaviness of the M6 makes for more steady shooting. I am not disputing the quality of the ZI, I am just saying that I find the weight of the M ideal for my needs. I have shot with lighter cameras and have found that my hand shakes more.
Click to expand...

I haven't use either of the M6 or the ZI, and I agree on depreication also.

I use older cameras, none of the camera in my apartment is younger than me. (except the mobile phone, but that's not an camera as we all know, it's more like a webcam, LOL). The most modern equipment I have access to is a Nikon F3, and a Leica R6.2 (Dad's, he is into SLR and Macro), you can't even compare that to a M2 or M3 or even a Contax IIa.

I am pretty spoiled by those classic cameras or lense, but you simply can't find those craftmenship in anymore.

M6 in my mind, would be closest to it. Leica did try hard to maintain the craftmanship, even if the brandnew stuff are so expensive (shall I say overpriced?).

But I would go for a R-D1, I do like the idea of digitial (also so damn expensive).
 
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ARS said:
I would DEFINITELY buy the M6!!!
BECAUSE:

1. IT IS LEICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. I had VERY VERY bad experience with contax G2
3. ZI is overpriced BESSA R3A (I don't trust COSINA, BTW)
4. I don't want my camera to be dead without batteries. M6 works everywhere/everytime
5. Look carefully at the lever that opens the back door!!! Absolutly UNSAFE... You WILL loose your pictures because of it.
6. ZI shutter NOISE!!!
7. Are you still thinking? Run and buy M6

Regards...
Click to expand...


apples and oranges my friend.
your argument is full of water and by your description i'm guessing you have never even held the zi but have only read about it.

joe
 
George, this is a tough choice. One camera is aperture priority, battery dependent, the other is fully manual, and will work fully if the batteries are dead. Batteries only operate the meter. You might want to go to a shop and handle the Z1 and a M6 side by side. I would recommend stopping in at Photo Village during your lunch time and checking them both out and see which one you prefer. You can then "weigh" the options yourself.
 
Why compare ZI to M6? The camera is just a lightproof box that holds the film. Why not do a ZI vs M6 vs (3)R3As comparison? I'm guessing that you really want a camera that you can feel emotionally attached to. For me, that is the M6. Simply for its looks - The ZI is ugly next to the Leica.
 
copake_ham said:
Even though I am a dyed-in-the-wool Nikonian I'm thinking about an M-mount camera. Yes, I know this is blasphemy.

It is now about six months since the ZI came out. After some early "teething problems" (not surprising with a new product) it seems to be getting good reviews.

If I were to join the "dark side" ;) at the amount I'm willing to spend I would probably choose either a new ZI or a excellent condition used M6-TTL from someone like KEH.

While keeping it civil (please!) can the M-mount folks here comment on the pros and cons of each and what THEY would do?
Click to expand...

M6TTL because of its fully mechanical operation and proven reliability.
 
ywenz said:
I'm guessing that you really want a camera that you can feel emotionally attached to.
Click to expand...

Just go buy a one of them, then take a trip to africa! You will be emotionally attached to the camera after shooting it in a different part of the world.

Why not let you experiences with the camera build the emotional attachment?
 
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